AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Don't do it, please. It is against server rules and it cheapens any honest player who bites the bullet and hits the respawn button. I've seen it lately and now that screenshot works again on both servers, I have no qualms to press it. :evil:

For clarification:

You die on A and log to B to get a respawn and start something new on either server or continue on A, thats bad.

You die and wait for the reset on the server you died to get a respawn after reset, that is fine.

Yeah. I guess you're right. I should have screen shotted that dwarf who logged in when you told me so.

I've died on B just before reset with a party, logged back on B and had people accuse me of doing that very thing. The party would not have left my character for dead, so getting a raise off a party member in the welcome area straight after is only fair.

Just saying there are exceptions where even though something may appear shady, it may not always be. Obviously, I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular. Just putting it out there.

I am more referring to the cases when the whole party dies, I respawn, log to B alive and see some dead party members coming in. I was quite disapointed when some party decided to take on the mindflayer boss and all died, and the consensus among the party was "Ok, lets go to B and do Abyss instead", after going to B with the whole dead party.

Yup If i see you appear in the Middle of Wiltun dead because you are using the safe zone exploit to gurantee a raise because you were soloing on A I will screenshot your arse faster than you can blink.

Also don't abuse me for not raising you in the entry. I don't do entry raises for anyone anymore.

I raise people. I do. I find it courtesy to do such. I know that i myself, have a crappy internet, and many other do. Wireless is the devil.

Indeed. Very much against the rules and if you fail to upkeep them you'll run into long term bans. If you unsure if you are allowed to go to either server try ask either another player or in the dm channel.

I don't. And if I see an solo'er die at a spawn, and promptly swap characters to wait for the reset; I will happily ensure a respawn is taken when they log into the entry for a freebie.

More than a respawn. Metagaming death is the full loss of a level, and an amount of GP entirely left up to the DM's discretion, but it is far more than the presumably 40k you'd have lost for just respawning.

It's not illegal though, is it? What Ron is talking about, that is: waiting for a reset of the same server and then logging in.

I thought it's pretty much standard procedure. If you die alone, you log off for the night and get a raise some other day.

No, he means: Die, log to other server, get raise, return to previous server or stay on current. Swapping for a res period is illegal.

TormakSaber wrote:

No, he means: Die, log to other server, get raise, return to previous server or stay on current. Swapping for a res period is illegal.

He said swapping characters, though, not swapping servers.

personally, if I die while soloing, I typically will not play on that character for the rest of the day. Maybe even longer, as my play time is severely gimped. Reading wonwon's post makes it seem that its illegal for me to log off after dying to wait for a reset sometime in the future to get a raise in entry.

clarification?

You die in a hunting area, you respawn. Duping the server's mechanics because we simply can't return you to where you died, and thusly getting a free raise due to the server's reset cycle, is basically an exploit.

Whether it's common practice or not, is besides the point. Muling and Twinking also is a common practice; dun mean it's good.

If that's a new rule it needs to be posted. Because I have literally never seen it enforced, and even seen DM's giving out lobby raises.

I respawn. Every time. No matter how I die, no matter where I die. I often try to respawn before you can use your Raise Dead scroll on me. Whether it was my build, a lag spike, a poor connection (never happens with me), a PvP instance, doesn't matter. I bite the bullet as I should, and don't cry about it.

The exception is perhaps when we are hunting and I'm having a good time and I die and you want to raise me so I'll continue on with the party. Or during a DM event where it is allowed.

I also do not make a habit of raising dead in the entry. I also don't always raise dead people I find lying on the side of the road. I may alert the authorities, instead, or barring that, give them a decent burial or do something to find out who they are so that I can notify their next of kin. But not always raise.

762 wrote:

If that's a new rule it needs to be posted. Because I have literally never seen it enforced, and even seen DM's giving out lobby raises.

This.

Being raised in the entry (after a server reset) has never been considered as a rule violation in the past.

Server swapping for an entry-raise being something entirely different.

I agree with Mago and 762. I have in the past tried to raise everyone and anyone in the entry because well, I thought it was the polite thing to do.

I don't raise people in the entry. Because I think they should respawn if they die.

But logging off to wait for a reset, in order to be raised in the entry of the same server you died on, hasn't been a rule violation before, and if it is now, it should be properly clarified and added to the current rules.

Because it is not that way in the "rules", it is not a rule.

But I've never had to read anyone's rules to do what is right, and even beyond.

Then it's official.

The vast majority of Amia's players have probably violated the unwritten rule of being raised in the entry.

Shame on you.

Last edited by Gunz on Thu, Mar 04 2010, 23:48 PM, edited 1 time in total.

WonWon wrote:

You die in a hunting area, you respawn. Duping the server's mechanics because we simply can't return you to where you died, and thusly getting a free raise due to the server's reset cycle, is basically an exploit.

Whether it's common practice or not, is besides the point. Muling and Twinking also is a common practice; dun mean it's good.

I argued this point a looong time ago and was shut down by players and DMs alike. DM's stated at that time that it was fair game to die and wait for the reset to get a free raise. It's not against the rules.

Instead of fighting what almost everyone wanted, I went with the flow. I raise people at entry and get raised. It's allowed, players do it, DM's do it, why hold it against them when it's not a rule?

i often dont log to another char after one dies, im almost always in a party so i usually get raises... and i hunt in common hunting grounds so i tend to just sit there forever after i die, dosent eem entirely right that you should have to respawn after a reset... if you die in a well traveled area.. like say orc caves, or quagmires, it tends to reason, at some point or another after you died some one found you, and did something that got you raised, respawning seems an iffy thing to me RP wise due to the ' you can do it asmany times as you like' the gods would really have to like you for you to do that. if i sit in an area on a dead char till a reset... and the reset happens.. i go back in.. get a raise... say it happened at some untold ic time... and go play, its more RP like then respawning all the time if u ask me.

This respawn/raise after reset thing does need to be made really clear. So far we've had a few DMs say in this thread that it is not just bad form, but outright wrong. If apperaing in the entry way dead is going to earn overlord anger points it really should be made a rule.

That said, it would be a damned harsh rule. As was said earlier, wireless is the devil and many of us do not have any other option with our internet. I mean, I play with a ping of over 900 usually(not sure it that is the correct tech term) and have been killed by an Amia Frontier Goblin spawn because my PC just sat there while I ranted and raved and tried to stick a coathanger in my crap USB modem to get a better signal. You could argue that an epiv level chartacter getting killed by four goblins is metagmaing couldn't you? Bearing that in mind I do respawn when I die... unless it was a lag issue.

More annoying is when people just log off server A to get to wiltun on server B, instead of using a boat or a charge on their wand.

It's cheap, it's nasty, it's metagaming. Don't do it.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

More annoying is when people just log off server A to get to wiltun on server B, instead of using a boat or a charge on their wand.

Oooo, guilty as charged. I've done that because I'm too lazy to walk the distance it takes and hate "wasting" a charge only to be told I cannot port to A because it is full. Also because my mind works like a writer's: you don't need the nonsense travel time in between, just the point A and the point B.

I like it, though. I think I'll stop doing that, too, because it is rather OOC.

Yossarin wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

More annoying is when people just log off server A to get to wiltun on server B, instead of using a boat or a charge on their wand.

Oooo, guilty as charged. I've done that because I'm too lazy to walk the distance it takes and hate "wasting" a charge only to be told I cannot port to A because it is full. Also because my mind works like a writer's: you don't need the nonsense travel time in between, just the point A and the point B.

I like it, though. I think I'll stop doing that, too, because it is rather OOC.

Yea, I've done it to on occassion without thinking. But typically it's reducing the use of those transitions put in, and is avoiding the use of an IC power via an OOC method.

It's pretty small on the grand scheme of metagaming mishaps, but it's still a bit of a solid punch to someone who did the work to connect the two servers.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

More annoying is when people just log off server A to get to wiltun on server B, instead of using a boat or a charge on their wand.

It's cheap, it's nasty, it's metagaming. Don't do it.

Plus little things like not having Wiltun when you're on A and not having Cordor when you're on B, and not willing to use two slots that will be wasted at least 50% f the time.

I honestly don't know why since its a major bindpoint on B why wiltun isn't on there with Cordor.

This rule, needs to be put in the Rules Section, very clearly, plain as daylight because, having it in a discussion forum, don't make it a rule easy to find at all...

It then becomes "case law" and as we all know, only a trained lawyer will ever be able to dig it up...

Take home message: put it in Rules.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

More annoying is when people just log off server A to get to wiltun on server B, instead of using a boat or a charge on their wand.

Oooo, guilty as charged. I've done that because I'm too lazy to walk the distance it takes and hate "wasting" a charge only to be told I cannot port to A because it is full. Also because my mind works like a writer's: you don't need the nonsense travel time in between, just the point A and the point B.

I like it, though. I think I'll stop doing that, too, because it is rather OOC.

Yea, I've done it to on occassion without thinking. But typically it's reducing the use of those transitions put in, and is avoiding the use of an IC power via an OOC method.

It's pretty small on the grand scheme of metagaming mishaps, but it's still a bit of a solid punch to someone who did the work to connect the two servers.

Ugh you're right and I totally do that too.

I blame it on the semi-OOC nature of the portal wand - you have Cordor as an option only when on A, and Wiltun only when on B. Of course, one can grab nodes from both, but that's using two slots that can be otherwise utilised - and keep in mind, one of them would be wanted at all times (since Slot 1 will take you to the same place).

and here i had no idea i was breaking a rule by logging off for the day when i died and waiting until reset to get the raise.

although, I remember the concensus being "you can either take the gold/experience penalty, or the playtime penalty for death"

and if it is a rule violation, block raising in entry mechanically. all other spells are blocked, why aren't raises?

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

More annoying is when people just log off server A to get to wiltun on server B, instead of using a boat or a charge on their wand.

It's cheap, it's nasty, it's metagaming. Don't do it.

Plus little things like not having Wiltun when you're on A and not having Cordor when you're on B, and not willing to use two slots that will be wasted at least 50% f the time.

I'm not sure if I'm taking what you said correct, because if I am it makes me bloody angry that people could be so unapprciative of Disco's work in favor of streamlining their characters.

Zanthair wrote:

and here i had no idea i was breaking a rule by logging off for the day when i died and waiting until reset to get the raise.

although, I remember the concensus being "you can either take the gold/experience penalty, or the playtime penalty for death"

and if it is a rule violation, block raising in entry mechanically. all other spells are blocked, why aren't raises?

Your not if you wait from what I understand. If you log off A and log on B to get raised by a mate or something, thats the lame-o part.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

More annoying is when people just log off server A to get to wiltun on server B, instead of using a boat or a charge on their wand.

It's cheap, it's nasty, it's metagaming. Don't do it.

Plus little things like not having Wiltun when you're on A and not having Cordor when you're on B, and not willing to use two slots that will be wasted at least 50% f the time.

I'm not sure if I'm taking what you said correct, because if I am it makes me bloody angry that people could be so unapprciative of Disco's work in favor of streamlining their characters.

Oh? Why react so aggressively? My point is logging out of A and into B is a perfectly reasonable option when you do not have the physical capability to port to Wiltun 50% of the time. And the problem with using another portal slot on it is that that will be wasted 50% of the time.

If Slot 1 gave me a choice between Wiltun and Cordor when used (i.e. you click it and it opens a new dialogue menu for choiec between racial start on A and racial start on B), then it would be perfectly reasonable to expect people to use it. However, since that option doesn't exist, you're asking people to spend more than just a portal to get there.

Of course, the counter argument to that is that you can bind manually to Cordor and Wiltun in your other slots. Unfortunately this uses up 25% of your portal locations, and one slot will always be redundant (if you're on A, the extra Cordor slot is pointless, if on B the extra Wiltun one).

So while I do appreciate Disco's hard work in this area, I am merely pointing out a flaw that can be constructed upon.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Zanthair wrote:

and here i had no idea i was breaking a rule by logging off for the day when i died and waiting until reset to get the raise.

although, I remember the concensus being "you can either take the gold/experience penalty, or the playtime penalty for death"

and if it is a rule violation, block raising in entry mechanically. all other spells are blocked, why aren't raises?

Your not if you wait from what I understand. If you log off A and log on B to get raised by a mate or something, thats the lame-o part.

That's what I thought to, but according to Wonwon:

WonWon wrote:

I don't. And if I see an solo'er die at a spawn, and promptly swap characters to wait for the reset; I will happily ensure a respawn is taken when they log into the entry for a freebie.

Are we to take this to mean that we are not allowed to play Amia at all until reset/respawn?

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

More annoying is when people just log off server A to get to wiltun on server B, instead of using a boat or a charge on their wand.

It's cheap, it's nasty, it's metagaming. Don't do it.

Plus little things like not having Wiltun when you're on A and not having Cordor when you're on B, and not willing to use two slots that will be wasted at least 50% f the time.

I'm not sure if I'm taking what you said correct, because if I am it makes me bloody angry that people could be so unapprciative of Disco's work in favor of streamlining their characters.

Oh? Why react so aggressively? My point is logging out of A and into B is a perfectly reasonable option when you do not have the physical capability to port to Wiltun 50% of the time. And the problem with using another portal slot on it is that that will be wasted 50% of the time.

If Slot 1 gave me a choice between Wiltun and Cordor when used (i.e. you click it and it opens a new dialogue menu for choiec between racial start on A and racial start on B), then it would be perfectly reasonable to expect people to use it. However, since that option doesn't exist, you're asking people to spend more than just a portal to get there.

Of course, the counter argument to that is that you can bind manually to Cordor and Wiltun in your other slots. Unfortunately this uses up 25% of your portal locations, and one slot will always be redundant (if you're on A, the extra Cordor slot is pointless, if on B the extra Wiltun one).

So while I do appreciate Disco's hard work in this area, I am merely pointing out a flaw that can be constructed upon.

I wasn't being aggresive, I just spent the last 15 minutes re-thinking how to write that message so it wasn't aggresive. I was simply stating that if I was taking the message the way it was meant then it made me angry, and why it made me angry.

You can bind anywhere on B & A and take the boats to wiltun or cordor. Just because they are cities you enter when coming into the server, doesn't mean they are not places that should be treated like normal cities.

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Zanthair wrote:

and here i had no idea i was breaking a rule by logging off for the day when i died and waiting until reset to get the raise.

although, I remember the concensus being "you can either take the gold/experience penalty, or the playtime penalty for death"

and if it is a rule violation, block raising in entry mechanically. all other spells are blocked, why aren't raises?

Your not if you wait from what I understand. If you log off A and log on B to get raised by a mate or something, thats the lame-o part.

That's what I thought to, but according to Wonwon:

WonWon wrote:

I don't. And if I see an solo'er die at a spawn, and promptly swap characters to wait for the reset; I will happily ensure a respawn is taken when they log into the entry for a freebie.

Are we to take this to mean that we are not allowed to play Amia at all until reset/respawn?

Could just be Won Won's choice and not the entire DM teams. Has been known to happen in the past <_<.

Edit: @ Selvec's First:

Exactly - so you are expected to pay a portal charge and some gold for somewhere you only need a portal wand to get to half the time.

I apologise for misinterpreting you incorrectly as aggressive, but I stand by my suggestion - allow the first slot to bring up another dialogue to choose whether you want to port to Wiltun or Cordor (or whatever the cities individuals may go to are).

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

More annoying is when people just log off server A to get to wiltun on server B, instead of using a boat or a charge on their wand.

Oooo, guilty as charged. I've done that because I'm too lazy to walk the distance it takes and hate "wasting" a charge only to be told I cannot port to A because it is full. Also because my mind works like a writer's: you don't need the nonsense travel time in between, just the point A and the point B.

Yea, I've done it to on occassion without thinking. But typically it's reducing the use of those transitions put in, and is avoiding the use of an IC power via an OOC method.

I was told it was alright to do this by a DM. I dont have a lot of mythals and I dont adventure to get more so I dont use the portal rod. Basically, relogging to the other server saves me ~5 min of mindless running (the ~300 gp that it would cost is totally irrelevant) when chances are I'm just popping in for 5 min anyway to see if there's anyone in Djedet or Wiltun. I always use the carts or ships within a server, though.

And Xavi commutes from Kohlingen. At 200 gp/day (the trip is probably long enough that it requires an overnight stay in Cordor), 300 days a year, for 30 years, that works out to, umm... almost 2 million gp. Of course, anyone who uses mythals to do the same thing is burning a crystal every tenday at least....

----------

And if I understand the 'relog/raise' issue correctly, the problem is that by logging out of one server you can appear in the entry of the other, where someone passing through can raise you without you having to respawn or wait for the reset on the original server. But it would not be improper to log back in with a different character, though... I dont think.... though Ron said he might hurt someone for it....

In other words you cannot, with the same character,

TormakSaber wrote:

Die, log to other server, get raise, return to previous server or stay on current. Swapping for a res period is illegal.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I am.
So.
Confused.

If I raise a corpse in the entry, is that bad?
Is being a corpse in the entry bad?

I don't even know anymore!

It's not a rule in the sense the PvP and muling rules are rules, so anyone who's been doing it isn't being punished for doing it.

That is not to say it absolutely will not become a rule, or be otherwise prevented at some point.

You can't tell, because there is no way for the casual observer to distinguish between someone who died on A and logged back onto A (legal), and someone who died on B and logged onto A in the hopes of getting a cheap-bastard raise before the normal reset for their original server was due, so they can continue without respawning.

I think that dying on one server should trigger a lockout on the other server so this can't happen. When you push respawn or get raised legally, or your original server resets, the lockout ends. Of course, saying it and doing it are two different things.

The most amusing thing is that xp penalty can only be 2900 (I'm pretty sure its 100xp/level penalty, I don't even think about I just hit respawn or if i'm tired I log out and respawn later). . .which on any given level is 20 minutes of hunting. And people log out for 2 - 3 hours sometimes to catch that entry respawn.

2900 xp / 50xp a kill = 58 monsters

58 Monsters / 20 = 3ish Loot Drops minimum at the lowest percentile die (which is 5)

Generally speaking. You will make your gold and xp back faster if you respawn rather than wait or switch servers.

Its not even very complicated Maths.

Well yes, but people are irrational about losing XP and gold and don't think of these things.

Not everyone builds well enough to take on 50xp/kill monsters.
It generally takes me an hour to get so much XP back

People are generally opposed to anything that means they lose a bit. Doesn't matter what they're losing and doesn't matter if they gain something else in return.

Yurell wrote:

Not everyone builds well enough to take on 50xp/kill monsters.
It generally takes me an hour to get so much XP back

What?

Six man party in abyss at 50xp a kill because Taur (who isn't even close to a powerbuild) has a 40 percent xp penalty and I get the xp back inside of 20 minutes. That was the basis of how I worked it out.

If its taking you longer than 30 minutes in a party to get your xp back, thats not an issue with Builds thats an issue with the parties ability to play the combat part of the game.

Remember and I state this enough that its starting to Bore me, I never consider soloing. Ever. In terms of balance or anything.

Why don't we do this:

You die, and a timer is set on you. Say 10 minutes.

A raise within this timer means no penalty.

A raise without this timer means a penalty.

You make sure that this timer is server specific. When you swap servers there's no timer, when you wait till next reset there's no timer. When you log out and wait 10 minutes you'll be placed in the entry (that's already happening) and your timer will have ran out as well.

You could even say you get half the penalty on a raise after the 10 minutes if you want to diversify the options. Then you can choose to continue straight away and take the full hit, or sit it out and hope for a raise in the entry at 50% damage.

MoshingChris wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Not everyone builds well enough to take on 50xp/kill monsters.
It generally takes me an hour to get so much XP back

What?

Six man party in abyss at 50xp a kill because Taur (who isn't even close to a powerbuild) has a 40 percent xp penalty and I get the xp back inside of 20 minutes. That was the basis of how I worked it out.

If its taking you longer than 30 minutes in a party to get your xp back, thats not an issue with Builds thats an issue with the parties ability to play the combat part of the game.

Remember and I state this enough that its starting to Bore me, I never consider soloing. Ever. In terms of balance or anything.

Fair enough.
I can never find six people to party with, though, except when I'm with you (then the xp flows like a river)

Server swapping, a reminder

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