AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I prefer Yossarin as a forum name, Alan Greenspan.. just sounds so dull and dry.

I've said this for a wee bit now, most people toss it off to the side, but I feel the DM's should take a strong hand and in manipulating the servers economy.

The players have done a bad job. Now reign in the monster please.

Alternatively, lets convert from high magic to low magic, put a cap of level 20, make the XP low before 10 and only gained via RP after 10, remove anything above +2 from the game, and add masterwork content in varying degree's *snicker*.

Im sorry, Mr. Mago may come off rather... abrasive, but he's normally very much dead on. This occasion is no exception, he knows whats up.

To any feathers ruffled, stop hating just cause he plays the evilest bastard on the server and it would make you OOCly happy to have Darth lose gold.

GreatPigeon wrote:

To any feathers ruffled, stop hating just cause he plays the evilest bastard on the server and it would make you OOCly happy to have Darth lose gold.

This isn't personal. It has nothing to do with any one character, especially not Darthion.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Alternatively, lets convert from high magic to low magic, put a cap of level 20, make the XP low before 10 and only gained via RP after 10, remove anything above +2 from the game, and add masterwork content in varying degree's *snicker*.

No. If we wanted that, we'd go to Arelith.

"I've hunted for a week and got...100XP~! WOOO! AND FIFTY WHOLE GP!"

Screw that.

Exactly why is someone being penalised for raising at restart? Restarts are usually few and far between. The punishment is lack of playing time with that character.

In many ways it kinda sounds like "Here's a penalisation for dying and thus no longer being able to play with your character on our server.". This kinda feels like a punishment for losing play time....

AxlLeigh wrote:

"I've hunted for a week and got...100XP~! WOOO! AND FIFTY WHOLE GP!"

Screw that.

AMEN!!

GreatPigeon wrote:

To any feathers ruffled, stop hating just cause he plays the evilest bastard on the server and it would make you OOCly happy to have Darth lose gold.

That's just a silly thing to say, even for you, Pidgy.

Mago gets the harder responses, because he argues the way he does. That doesn't mean he's being targeted, singled out, or anything. I'm pretty sure he's aware of that, too.

On the matter at hand, I still don't see any problems making it 10% gold loss for everyone. I don't see any use in upping the price on heal potions, raise scrolls, bubblies, etc as is either, though. With the current economy on Amia, it'll just harm the poor characters in their hunting, and in possible battles with the rich characters for whom it won't be a problem at all. Regulate the economy, then look at changing these things. In my oppinion, that is.

Back on thread line of logical progression from Respawn->Death penalties, and off discussing individuals please.

I see a problem.

Your not allowed to switch gear to alts. You can't store your gold anywhere on the server. If your a faction leader, that means you are likely carrying around literally millions in gold since half of it is your factions gold.

You can't transfer this gold. You hunt, you die, you respawn, you lose a shit load of gold from the factions coffers because you had to respawn. The majority of that scenerio being out of your control to prevent beyond not dying. Given at least one boss has Dev Crit, which can be a sudden "Die" scenerio with no chance of prevention, I kinda find that pretty lame.

Unless I'm missing a gold storage system on the server, which is likely since I haven't actively searched for one, I'm not to confident with losing 10% of several millions that aren't exactly mine.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I see a problem.

Your not allowed to switch gear to alts. You can't store your gold anywhere on the server. If your a faction leader, that means you are likely carrying around literally millions in gold since half of it is your factions gold.

You can't transfer this gold. You hunt, you die, you respawn, you lose a (censored) load of gold from the factions coffers because you had to respawn. The majority of that scenerio being out of your control to prevent beyond not dying. Given at least one boss has Dev Crit, which can be a sudden "Die" scenerio with no chance of prevention, I kinda find that pretty lame.

Unless I'm missing a gold storage system on the server, which is likely since I haven't actively searched for one, I'm not to confident with losing 10% of several millions that aren't exactly mine.

This is a valid concern of why I don't have Vaelmith hunting that much especially now, and why I didn't have Warrick hunting back during his time raising funds for Cordor if I could help it.

Quote:

Given at least one boss has Dev Crit, which can be a sudden "Die" scenerio with no chance of prevention, I kinda find that pretty lame.

You do not need to fight the one boss on the server with Dev. He is out of the way and in now way blocks your progress to get anywhere on the server.

As well, you can simply go with friends which lessens your chances of having to respawn by about a billion.

If you don't die, you don't need to respawn and if you don't respawn, you on't lose money. Seems simple.

Thus why I'm not going hunting as much with Vael.

Why not just make a rule that solo hunting is illegal?

That seems to be where we are going here.

I kinda wonder if people who don't go out much and grind out teh loots won't get hit harder. True, they will lose less gold then say, Darthion. At the same time, they can't regain the gold as quickly. And then again, non-powerbuilds are going to die more often then non powerbuilds, as are newer players.

And yes, I know people are going to say to party more. Well, that's kinda crap for gold gain.

I kinda doubt this is going to really stop powerbuilding, if dying a few times can easily wipe out your bank.

If death needs a little more ouch, why not just raise the cap?

762 wrote:

Why not just make a rule that solo hunting is illegal?

That seems to be where we are going here.

This does not follow logically.

Loss of gold is not equal to ban on doing it.

It's not even a ban at doing it badly.

It makes the stakes, and the gamble even higher though.

Press your luck or have another chance at epix.

It's obviously being actively discouraged, unless you are dirt poor. In which case you don't hunt anyway.

762 wrote:

It's obviously being actively discouraged, unless you are dirt poor. In which case you don't hunt anyway.

There's a difference between discouraging and outright banning. You are discouraged from smoking cigarettes, for example, yet they are not outright banned.

I actually don't see a problem with discouraging solo'ing per say. Since... well, one guy running around on his own, avoiding others, usually doesn't generate a lot of RP.

Encouraging grouping/partying and discouraging solo'ing/exclusion is something all RP servers should and hopefully do strive for.

And it's called Multiplayer, after all.

Here's a radical idea.

Instead of coming up with a death system that makes people miserable when soloing, why not come up with a loot system that encourages partying?

Because as it is, anyone going out looking for loot is actively discouraged from doing so by the fact that it doesn't scale up linearly to the number in the party.

762 wrote:

Here's a radical idea.

Instead of coming up with a death system that makes people miserable when soloing, why not come up with a loot system that encourages partying?

Because as it is, anyone going out looking for loot is actively discouraged from doing so by the fact that it doesn't scale up linearly to the number in the party.

Because that would make the problem of inflation worse.

More money going in vs more money going out.

I choose the latter FAR before the former

The proper method would be to reduce the loot drop % when solo'ing, actually.

So people solo longer for the same amount of money, RP less and hunt more to keep up the goldflow.

No, you can do both.

Instead of:

1 = 5% (5% per person)
2 = 6% (3% per person)
3 = 7% (2.3% per person)
4 = 8% (2% per person)
5 = 9% (1.8% per person)
6 = 10% (1.7% per person)

Make it:

1 = 3% (3% per person)
2 = 6% (3% per person)
3 = 9% (3% per person)
4 = 12% (3% per person)
5 = 15% (3% per person)
6 = 18% (3% per person)

Currently loot runs are overwhelmingly done solo. Why wouldn't they be? My chances at a drop are far less by taking even one additional person along.

Scaling the drop rate to be equivalent to what it currently is for a two person party, no matter how many come along, would result in an overall reduction in gold/loot inflow.

In addition, people would be encouraged to party up for loot runs, something they are currently discouraged from doing.

That makes for more RP, not less.

762 wrote:

No, you can do both.

Instead of:

1 = 5% (5% per person)
2 = 6% (3% per person)
3 = 7% (2.3% per person)
4 = 8% (2% per person)
5 = 9% (1.8% per person)
6 = 10% (1.7% per person)

Make it:

1 = 3% (3% per person)
2 = 6% (3% per person)
3 = 9% (3% per person)
4 = 12% (3% per person)
5 = 15% (3% per person)
6 = 18% (3% per person)

That's still much more money flowing into the economy - we already have too much coming in.

No, it isn't, Yurell. The average party size nowadays is about two people. Larger parties are common but then so are solo adventurers. If you do the math it works out about the same, if not less.

762 wrote:

No, it isn't, Yurell. The average party size nowadays is about two people. Larger parties are common but then so are solo adventurers. If you do the math it works out about the same, if not less.

To do the maths I would need to know, on average:
What proportion of total parties are in each category (e.g. an average of 2 people doesn't help if it's weighted heavily at the 6 people end)
What the average kill rate is for each size.

You'll find that larger parties have a tendency to kill things much faster than smaller parties, meaning that they'll get their higher loot roll chance at a greater rate - if they kill things twice as fast, it means as far as time is concerned the effective difference is doubled in loot gained.

It doesn't mean that, because of the way runs are done. A spires run is a spires run. An abyss run is an abyss run. A larger party just finishes it faster.

For your theory to be correct the party would have to keep going once the run was complete. People do that for XP, but not for loot. Once you hit 30 you go solo to get the lewts.

Okay... I say uncap gold restrictions. If you run around with several million gold on your character at all times, you can stand to lose a few million gold. I['m sorry, but if the % is the same across the board then it really doesn't cater any more to the low levels than it does the epics. Sure, you may lose more in pure monetary sense, but 10% is 10% regardless of what denomination you're taking it from. Personally, I think it would go a great ways towards taming Amia's bloated economy.

And I say bollocks. No death is worth a million gold. Ever.

Or even 1/10th that. It's a game, folks. Lag happens. Shit happens. Often beyond our control. Get rid of this "he's rich and I wanna see him get hit harder" mentality. It doesn't apply to what's being discussed in any logical fashion whatsoever.

762 wrote:

It doesn't mean that, because of the way runs are done. A spires run is a spires run. An abyss run is an abyss run. A larger party just finishes it faster.

A larger party = more money coming into the economy due to the fact that under your suggestion six people would be earning 80% more gold than they did previously, and more than three times what a single person does at present.
So a large party does have far more of an impact than simply doing an area quickly.

Also in my experience, if you do an area fast enough in a party one has a tendency to run the area again.

You're really not listening at all. Go reread what I posted please so I don't have to keep repeating it.

762 wrote:

And I say bollocks. No death is worth a million gold. Ever.

Then be in a party.

762 wrote:

Or even 1/10th that. It's a game, folks. Lag happens. (censored) happens. Often beyond our control. Get rid of this "he's rich and I wanna see him get hit harder" mentality. It doesn't apply to what's being discussed in any logical fashion whatsoever.

That's not the mentality of this - the mentality of this is to discourage death and remove gold from the economy. One could be equally cynical in return and presume that you're posting because your mentality is "I'm rich and I don't want to lose my gold" , which doesn't apply here in a logical fashion either.

I'm not accusing you of having that mentality, I'm merely pointing out the opposite of what you are accusing others of doing.

Yurell wrote:

Then be in a party.

Then have it make sense to be in one.

762 wrote:

You're really not listening at all. Go reread what I posted please so I don't have to keep repeating it.

Well, then have a look at it this way - if most gold farming is done soloing, then the most gold is on the soloers, therefore when they die it will be the fastest way to remove gold from the economy.

Alternatively, people may actually hunt at high levels not to mindlessly grind for gold but because they find it fun, and like to do so with their friends in a party.

762 wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Then be in a party.

Then have it make sense to be in one.

The fact that you would lose 10% of your gold on respawn does make it make sense to be in a party.

762 wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Then be in a party.

Then have it make sense to be in one.

You already get increased loot for being in a party, an easier time powering through spawns, more killing = more loot, go places faster, safer, less chance of death = no respawn to lose gold/XP, more XP. What more do you want? It makes perfect sense to be in a party. You and your fellow superrich are the ones defending solo hunting and your precious hundreds of millions of gold here.

ainjyll wrote:

Okay... I say uncap gold restrictions. If you run around with several million gold on your character at all times, you can stand to lose a few million gold. I['m sorry, but if the % is the same across the board then it really doesn't cater any more to the low levels than it does the epics. Sure, you may lose more in pure monetary sense, but 10% is 10% regardless of what denomination you're taking it from. Personally, I think it would go a great ways towards taming Amia's bloated economy.

Someone get to work on opening up other bank branches or increasing the insurance rates for the ACTF.

Yossarin wrote:

ainjyll wrote:

Okay... I say uncap gold restrictions. If you run around with several million gold on your character at all times, you can stand to lose a few million gold. I['m sorry, but if the % is the same across the board then it really doesn't cater any more to the low levels than it does the epics. Sure, you may lose more in pure monetary sense, but 10% is 10% regardless of what denomination you're taking it from. Personally, I think it would go a great ways towards taming Amia's bloated economy.

Someone get to work on opening up other bank branches or increasing the insurance rates for the ACTF.

Invest it in PC adventures, the ACTF, on NPC organisations ... the money is now safe and contributing towards some fun RP.

Edit: I'm supporting your point ... just making that clear, since I seem to phrase things incorrectly for the tone I intend to convey

Yurell wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

ainjyll wrote:

Okay... I say uncap gold restrictions. If you run around with several million gold on your character at all times, you can stand to lose a few million gold. I['m sorry, but if the % is the same across the board then it really doesn't cater any more to the low levels than it does the epics. Sure, you may lose more in pure monetary sense, but 10% is 10% regardless of what denomination you're taking it from. Personally, I think it would go a great ways towards taming Amia's bloated economy.

Someone get to work on opening up other bank branches or increasing the insurance rates for the ACTF.

Invest it in PC adventures, the ACTF, on NPC organisations ... the money is now safe and contributing towards some fun RP.

Edit: I'm supporting your point ... just making that clear, since I seem to phrase things incorrectly for the tone I intend to convey

.. So tempted to say it..

Yurell's right though.. if you invest it in PC Ventures, the ACTF or NPC organizations it can be quite interesting...

Gentlemen, I am talking about real mechanics here, not fluff. Let us get serious.

Well, then the bank would need to have fees, otherwise that would defeat the entire purpose of having any gold drop on death.

Yossarin wrote:

:?

What is your proposition? I may be misunderstanding (assuming that the 'confused' emoticon means confusion).

His face clearly comes from the fact that you are storing money precisely so you do not lose it, not so you can pay taxes and fees, when you are probably not even a citizen anyways and so you don't pay taxes!

Adventurer scum!

Whatever LOOT increases you get being in a party are drastically outweighed by the need to divide that loot. I should think this would be more than self evident by now.

Soloing is a far, far more efficient way to gain money than partying. It's absolutely ludicrous to have a loot system that drastically encourages it, and a death penalty that drastically discourages it. All that's going to do is piss people off and create headaches. Figure out which you want to do and structure the game mechanics to be consistent with it, both in terms of loot drops and death penalty.

It's also absurd to create an economy which encourages people to invest countless hours of playing time to become "superrich", only to sandbag them later with obscenely disproportionate death penalties.

And please, spare me the 10% is 10% argument. 10% of my gold is two weeks of farming. If you think I should have to burn that on a respawn, whether I decide to go out soloing or just get screwed by a lag spike in a party, then I have no words to describe how ridiculous that sentiment is.

762 wrote:

Whatever LOOT increases you get being in a party are drastically outweighed by the need to divide that loot. I should think this would be more than self evident by now.

Two people => Twice as Fast => Twice as many kills => That 3% is the equivalent of getting 6% each of a single person for total time spent.
While admittedly it is still rather top heavy, there are also expenses such as heals and the suggested death penalties that discourage going out alone. You want the reward, you take the risk.

762 wrote:

Soloing is a far, far more efficient way to gain money than partying. It's absolutely ludicrous to have a loot system that drastically encourages it, and a death penalty that drastically discourages it. All that's going to do is piss people off and create headaches.

In what way is it ludicrous? You are provided a way to attain better rewards, but at the price of increased risk.

762 wrote:

It's also absurd to create an economy which encourages people to invest countless hours of playing time to become "superrich", only to sandbag them later with obscenely disproportionate death penalties.

It's also absurd to let inflation spiral out of control. If changes need to be made for balance, then they need to be made - it's just unfortunate that it has to occur so far down the track.

762 wrote:

And please, spare me the 10% is 10% argument. 10% of my gold is two weeks of farming. If you think I should have to burn that on a respawn, whether I decide to go out soloing or just get screwed by a lag spike in a party, then I have no words to describe how ridiculous that sentiment is.

Then, as has been said, don't burn it on a respawn. Go out in a party. The chances of a party wipe in an area you could otherwise solo are quite low. And if you're aiming at a place that would otherwise be to hard for you, well that is again a risk/reward scenario.

Yes, I think you should have to burn it, because 10% is 10%.

Quote:

It's absolutely ludicrous to have a loot system that drastically encourages it, and a death penalty that drastically discourages it.

Urr.... this is how a death system WORKS. You lose things for dying and respawning. If you want to solo for more money, then along with that comes the risk of dying and losing stuff. If you don't... then party up, and deal with it.

No. It's stupid.

On one hand you push people to do it, and on the other you penalize them for doing it. That's colossally dumb.

Pick one or the other and go with it, please.

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