I find summons good or evil less threatening than somebody wandering through a city/town/settlement/ neutral area that npc's rarely attack having their weapon out. I can understand people not wanting to dismiss their pet if they only intend to wander through but a weapon in hand does show hostile intention. But to get back on the topic I would think a druid should have as much of an issue having an elemental running around as an undead. Elementals tend to be destructive outside their natural plane.

_________________
----------------------------------------------------
"Toss me...I cannot jump the distance. You will have to toss me." -Gimli

Summons are a perfectly adequate reason to give someone an unsummon ultimatum, regardless of what the summon is. Randomly attacking, however, is always a no without prior RP.

_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

Now I -have- to ask about druids of Talos. I never fully grasped their attitude towards undead. Does the alliance between Talos and Velsharoon mean anything? I mean, you are being a druid, then again, your deity has sponsored a few people to lichdom, one who is another deity, a busybody raising dead.

Should the druid of Talos be able to ignore a necromancer who flashes his piece, or approach him with lightning flying from his hands, warning him about his grave mistake and take action in one way or another?

_________________

Undead are unnatural beings created from the very opposite force of life itself, hance why they're so stringently opposed.

Celestials and fiends are made entirely of belief and divine power, be it good or evil, which is why many druids/rangers/other naturey folk also view them as unnatural. They are not part of the natural world. I can think of at least one ranger who extends that antipathy to tieflings/aasimar/genasi, and it fits. Especially for anyone with the "favored enemy: outsider" feat.

Elementals, on the other hand, are creations of natural substances. They're essentially bits of the elements imbued with a degree of sentience. They're still outsiders, however, so it would be proper for a druid to wish to banish them, unless they're being put to a good use by a *responsible* party (probably only another druid), even if they aren't actively causing trouble. But they also tend to be viewed as far less upsetting to nature than other such beings.

_________________

Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011

I would think a Druid, even of Talos would be highly intollerant of undead. Evil druids tend to be hardcore zealots; think Taliban. *Any* deviation from the *strictest* of interpretations of their religious faith demands immediate, brutal retribution.

"Good" or "Neutral" druids are more likely to rationalize a non-violent solution to an issue.

Of course, any individual char is up to the player and their interpretation of how the char should behave (within the expectations for Server RP).

_________________
Working on tastey new adventures!
Playing: Theos Gend, Perry Sawmir, Mers Larin
Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the two giant wolves.

That's a very good question. I'd think the druid would still want to get rid of the undead. If the undead gets itself destroyed while itself commiting destruction (a end the druid could well encourage, if he/she's smart), I don't think a druid of Talos would have much trouble with it. After all, Talassans tend to view destruction for it's own sake as an end in and of itself.

_________________

Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011

Velsharoon flipped Talos the bird a while ago. No conflict of interest there.

_________________
Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)

Having been on the receiving end of the "Hey you stop!" method of RP before PVP >.< when my character had a wraith out -- a wraith /not/ following the character but just floating there as the character went about their merry way... I understand the annoyance of getting attacked without having the rules followed. So, I agree with the please don't do that.

I would also add that the RP is important. I'm running a LG cleric who has a summon with a pic of a skeleton thingy when the summon is actually a neutral outsider. It's not the summon undead spell. So I would caution folks to do the RP, takes a good look, sniffs etc before spouting the "Unsummon or die. //because my screen shows the OOC pic of something undead"

And I'd like to apologize to the player who I said had summoned an undead when it was actually a Deathless Fighter. I saw 'Death' and well....you know....

_________________
Ari'aerath Dlues'athsha ~ Silver Singer with the Bow of the Sun
Clarette Feohn ~ Magic is Art.
Victoria Marrs ~ "I have an herb for that."

Honestly, what you see is what you get really imo. I've had similiar situations as you described, but the good guy in question seems to be more haughty than anything else, as in they say "dont you know? haha you dont know!". I may do the same as my character, but if I did in front of some undead killing zealot I expect the smackdown OOCly. I've pretty well never seen anyone react in a reasonable manner ala "no no, its not undead give me a minute to explain!" rather than "I dont need to explain anything to you/who are you to ask/what authority do you have". You ask those sorts of questions in a pvp area with no guards, you are going to find out.

I love 'hey you stop' RP, some of the most fun RP on the server. Qirlan vs. Theos FTW. EO rock.

_________________
Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

I did not say that, do not misrepresent my words as fact. I am caapble of speaking for myself; and I did.



You should absolutely not apologize for roleplaying according to what your character feels he saw, sourcebooks and OOC lore be damned.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

A Druid is not okay with undead. Ever. A Druid of Talos would kill an undead it saw, even if Talos has sponsored liches. Besides, who's to say the Druid even knows that Talos did such a thing? We're not meant to know everything in the books ICly. Also, Talos and Velsharoon aren't cool with each other. Haven't been for a while.

If you want to be a "Druid" who is cool with undead, you're looking for the Blighter. Those are the anti-Druids; destroy nature without care, run with undead, etc. etc.

_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

So far I have not been accepting the undead as a druid. Just had to ask. Figured the destruction of undead would be oh so much sweeter for a Talassan.



According to http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humangods/Talos.htm it says they are allies. I was informed that this page is more accurate than the http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Talos one.

Of course it states that Velsharoon played his cards right and avoided the fury of Talos, but did it already happen? I'm totally lost when it comes to time and age of FR.

Anyhow, thanks for the answers.

_________________

It amazes me to see how damn hard it is to understand a simple thing like this... Honestly, it confuses me.

Half the times when I've RPed my Kelly say "You filth! Remove that undead abomination at once or I shall do it!" and get replied "Up yours, madman!" etc. and I've attacked, after beating them down, I get an angry tell shouting at me how terrible person I am and how I've broken the rules.

I think I've given them a chance. More than a Kelly usually should've given. Still they call me names and whimper. Que?

_________________
Characters:
Hunar Iroff, The red-bearded, grumpy dwarf with a bastard sword. Chair of Military Issues
Daren Sten, High Inquisitor of the Eternal Order of Kelemvor on Amia

This ought to answer the whole thread. And quite frankly, the topic isn't about good and evil or bastards and courtesy. It's about whether a druid is allowed to attack a chappy with an undead hanging around and the answer self-evidently, as Tormak presents here, is yes. And as Hendrack mentioned: Letting undead stroll about would make druids fall pretty quickly.

Of course there might be exceptions, but let's not "bonk the dot".

_________________

UCE THIS, YOU COW.

I had the same experience that Herra had with my elven char when she killed a necromancer. He was so insufferable on tells and oocly that I was shocked to the point of tears and I had never had anyone to treat me with such disrespect before. Thanks Maias and Lally that were paying attention and pulled the two of us from an OOC situation that quite destroyed Amia experience for me.

Shalwyn is hot headed and she is quite simple on her views of proper and wrong, she does not care if she will die, but she will defend what she believes. Of course she has PvPed more than all my characters together. OOC always happens when I end up killing someone that likes PvP but do not like losing it. It destroys the whole PvP experience tbh.

Now, a necromancer just baited my druid. That was exactly the same person of the conflict above, so I would have rather keep going, but I "had no option" because one) he was with two undead in the forest; two) he was taking over the forest and saying he would kill all druids there. Even though oocly I wanted out of that situation, icly I had to respond even though I was alone and I was lvl 15 and his necromancer 30 (because I don't enter PvP because I will win, I enter it because my character would does not matter if she would win or not and lvls dont exist in the IC world).

There are many ways to not give an out on PvP and honestly some people gives you ways out that you cannot take without jeopardizing your character personality, believes, dogma and history.

Of course things happened, she died, her bird went away to find help and I shouted it so he knew the bird were gone for help. (yes I discovered because Bobo told me that I cannot do that in PvP so I won't anymore.)

Things in PvP that bugs me 1) Throw my body in a portal somewhere, an oocly action that I refuse. If a person says "enters with her in a portal and do so and throw her body somewhere is something" but I am not obligated to accept ooc actions, am I? Well, I need to know because I usually don't. I don't accept OOC raise when I am killed in the swamp by an orc either, my character will be there dead until someone arrives and raises her. It is too easy, to get killed and then raise and continue hunting, what type of RP is that? What death is that? So, we ignore the bad and embrace the good? I don't agree with it. And players have seeing me refusing the ooc raising and continue dead until she was found. Some even carried her to a more public place to help in the process of her getting raised quicker.

2) I wont port out and don't come back for an entire reset. Once again I refuse the oocly action. Or I am taking out from the place IC or I will be there dead. Banites captured Shalwyn, thanks Gods they were nice enough to give a body part to someone, if they didn't she would be dead until a true resurrection was made.

However, I have seeing situations where the person refused IC actions. Like carrying him out and blaming my character for doing that first. I never refuse IC actions. Not even unfair ones. I was jumped by two banites once, no oocly warning, no nothing, Kaboom dead. In not one single moment I complained, I went with the game, with the actions, because honestly I should pay attention when Banites had just attacked that area. But, people seem to like complaining about everything, while they try to bend the rules just enough that they are not breaking it and if you do what you should ICly, you are bad, you are evil, you are not playing your character right.

But, the manipulation of the rules are very clearly for me when a necromancer stand around with two undead, known to be reproached by druids and baiting them into PvP by taken over their forest. Giving a way out that no druid would take without failing their oaths. Trying to make people accept oocly actions without giving an IC action they couldn't refuse. Then, if they are pwned by druids, say, oh you didn't give me an out. >.<

Blaming druids for PvPing necromancers because they are walking their undead pets in the park for me is just silly. If you are walking your undead pet you are with a huge post on top of your head saying, I want to PvP, wanna join? If you get pwned by a druid then, it is all your fault really, because of your rp a druid have no way out of the pvp even if he wants it. Because that would make him icly break his oath with nature.

For me it is baiting people to PvP, you will get your PvP, so stop complaining. Honestly, in any books I have read with necromancers they take their undead for a stroll. It is disrespectful even with their art of necromancy. It shows, in my opinion, a great level of immaturity and a lack of understanding of what is to be a necromancer. There are very few necromancers in the server that rp it right and most of them I have PvPed had something to say oocly because they honestly didn't like to lose the fight and everything seem to be suddenly done wrong.

So, before you come and complain about the druids, you should look what you have done to get into that situation. Druid baiting is not a good thing and will have IC consequences. My druid may be low level but she won't run away from your lvl 30 necromancer if you bait her using her oath, dogma and believes.

edited so I would make it more universal.. I think >.<

_________________

Signature by Qualiz

Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.

I hate to say this again. The point of this thread was not "about whether a druid is allowed to attack a chappy with an undead hanging around." It was about attacking without any supporting RP or the needed IC Out. The OP has already been answered in that regard and has been told it's best to just screenshot these rule-breaking encounters, since no matter the situation: the PvP rules state that just having a summon is not grounds enough for PvP. You have to give an IC Out before you attack. This stipulation has not been followed. Hence, from the first post, in case someone didn't read it:



I'm sorry if I'm being repetitive and annoying. I just don't like that the reason for this topic's existence has been warped. If we need to discuss if druids or Kellies are allowed to attack people for having Undead, then make a new thread for it. But I think it's not necessary, since IC actions are IC actions and should be left IC, so long as the rules are followed.

Also... Del, you shouldn't post specific incidents like that. =/

_________________

Yes, I should, because they are clearly a representation of what is wrong. They are examples of things that happen every day when you are there in "the field" doing your character work. I didnt name the person or exposed anyone to that, I just gave examples.

And my post was all about how the rule, you need to give a PvP out can be bended in a way that yes you give an out, break your oath and leave or fight. That isn't really an out. Sometimes to keep your character real you cannot accept the out even if you want to. And believe me, I wanted that so bad I almost logged to avoid it.

In the case of that post, you give an out, put the undead down. If he does so, it is an out, if not, then you will have to deal with the consequences of being a silly necromancer and take your pet undead for a stroll. You exposed your self as an evil force, you are raping some dead person mind, manipulating their body, going against all that is natural and you want us to do what exactly? Say, oh honey, put your thing down and walk away peacefully because I am a nice player and my character anger against your action shall not be counted. The fact that you have your undead out to bait me into this action, shouldn't count. Because I need to follow the rule and give you a cookie for being a good necromancer and sending your undead away, just so I turn my back and you call it up again.

The situation is very delicate, the solution, dont treat your undead as if they were animal companions or familiars.

_________________

Signature by Qualiz

Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.

I could quote countless DM posts that say "No specific incidents" but there's too many. That is a very specific incident. You don't need to name names for everyone who was involved to know exactly which incident you're talking about. It's not an example when you're talking about one particular PvP incident. But that's not the point. I just wanted to say it before someone else did in a less-friendly manner. It's against the rules of the forum as much as PvP'ing without an IC Out is against the rules.

But yes, I agree with your point about the IC Out. It's the same reason that an evil character can't say "Denounce your god or I'll kill you" to a paladin. It's not a "reasonable" IC Out. "Reasonable" is often a term up for discussion, since common sense isn't universal. But if you don't think you've been given a reasonable IC Out, screenshot. I know many people probably don't want to bug DMs for PvP issues, but they're here to help and make the world enjoyable for everyone. Don't be afraid to do it.

_________________

The best IC out is to unsummon it? That is generally given by everyone.

You are right about the screenshot thing. I rarely do it though, I should. But, honestly I try to role with the punches and fix things on my own and only take to dms when it becomes too much.

I believe in all my years of amia I have asked DM help three times. What is wrong, since many times I went with the rules being broken and just kept in character.

Yes, I apologize for the telling of the situation.. Let me go back and express it better...

_________________

Signature by Qualiz

Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.

So, what if:

-Character see an undead summon (or a shadow in Unen's case. he gets confused. They look like ghosts).

-Character shouts "Undead!"

-Player emotes that the character is charging towards the summon, it's intentions clear.

-Player pauses before actually engaging, giving time for the summoner to state their reaction (unsummoning, intervening.. whatever).

It gives time for an 'out' rather than always needing conversation.

(if there is to be a thread about the need for druids/kellies to attack undead, can it have a good helping of *everyone's* need to attack/question shifters in.. well.. unusual shapes for the region.)

_________________
Yay for Morphine!
Boo for having enough pain to have to use it..

I wouldn't charge that way. The out would be, dismiss your undead. If the necromancer does so, you still hate him. the out would be, get out of here before I kill you. If the necromancer leaves there is no PvP.

_________________

Signature by Qualiz

Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.

Or port, or run. Unen got tripped mid charge once, was a funny encounter.

_________________
Yay for Morphine!
Boo for having enough pain to have to use it..

YES! Oh HAPPY DAY!....

Finally I can out the goodies(and the druids) For the METAGAMERS they are.

Since you mentioned this very specific incident I might I as well tell my side.

BOBO UNDERHILL...you listening?...cause you were there and hopefully remember why I was upset.

Yes....me(and another powerful mage) Were threatening people in the forest. After my bad PvP experience over the Goblin/Kobold War, I decided pay back was in order.

So of course I come across yet another victim.

Of course I give her her out(leave the forest or die).

Of course she's brave but unintelligent so she doesn't accept(whoever does?)

She summons her bird(which wouldn't have gotten five feet and did in fact die right along side her). Her bird isn't even a parrot or something that could talk. Of coure she METAGAMED in tells to her druid pals(JUST AS I SUSPECTED AND TOLD THE DMS)

Then of course when I kill her she refuses any RP(even though she's perfectly willing to PvP with her other characters and when she has the advantage of numbers on her side). I try to repeatedly throw her in a portal, because I HATE HATE HATE After death RP. She refuses.

Naturally the twelve or so players she tod showed up and defeated me. Since she was unwilling to participate in me simply dumping her body out, I did the ame..and tried to stay dead on the floor.

It was the other way around actually...the goodies complained and I was temporarily booted.

Now, besides breaking a forum violation about mentioning specific incidents, metagaming your bird, and ignoring a perfectly valid RP/PvP session...are thee anymore rules you'd like to break as you attempt to make me look bad?

See Bobo.....I mentioned that little fact about twelve fully buffed druids showing up...and I was right!...LOL


*edited* PS, I never even knew who the player of that girl was. Originally I was less upset because I thought it was a newb player I mistakingly made have a bad time. But now that I know it's you....a player who has been here some time and clearly knows the rule...it makes my shame about the incident twicefold.

Yes. That's a reasonable IC Out. Telling someone to leave their home so you can continue to do whatever you want, against their oaths, or telling a paladin or like-minded individual to do something against their very beings is not a reasonable IC Out, as has been said by the DM Team for years. A group of necromancers cannot come across a traveling paladin and demand he denounce his faith or be killed. It doesn't work that way. A good PC cannot use denouncing Bane, or whatever, as a reasonable IC Out, either. As I've said, however, this will always be up for discussion as long as people insist that "leave your home, which you have always protected from people like me, or I will kill you" is a valid and reasonable IC Out.

_________________

You know, I sent a hawk out to Winya to one specific character that would recognize the bird. The bird didn't speak at all. The others that showed up, showed up for reasons I cannot tell. You can believe it or not. And I already apologized for it and Bobo had already talked to me and told me that I cannot do that again and I accepted my error.


~ Then of course when I kill her she refuses any RP(even though she's perfectly willing to PvP with her other characters and when she has the advantage of numbers on her side). I try to repeatedly throw her in a portal, because I HATE HATE HATE After death RP. She refuses. ~

ALL YOUR ACTIONS to get rid of my character's body were oocly. All of them, I don't really care if you like to rp after death. You could have carried her away and throw her outside the forest. She would remain there. But, you kept trying to do everything ooc. I am in my right to refuse ooc actions.

Naturally the twelve or so players she tod showed up and defeated me. Since she was unwilling to participate in me simply dumping her body out, I did the ame..and tried to stay dead on the floor. ~ you refused people carrying you out, that was the point. You refused IC actions, can you see the difference? ~


Now, besides breaking a forum violation about mentioning specific incidents, metagaming your bird, and ignoring a perfectly valid RP/PvP session...are thee anymore rules you'd like to break as you attempt to make me look bad?
~ I don't need to make you look bad, you already do on your own actions. I didn't think sending out a hawk to find a friend was wrong. The friend rped correctly by spotting the hawk that flies much higher than five feets even though you cannot see it because of game mechanics and thinking there are problems and followed the hawk back (one person only, one single person). I thought that was something a druid could do, because we use birds for messages. It was an honest mistake and I talked to bobo about it and I wont do that again as I promised, you refusing IC actions, and being so rude to the point to bring another player to tears are not a honest mistake. ~

See Bobo.....I mentioned that little fact about twelve fully buffed druids showing up...and I was right!...LOL

No you were not right. Because I didn't call for help besides Avae and thru a way I thought was legal. I don't call for help, I am quite honest on my gaming, DMs have seeing me playing in Amia for years now, I had never ever had one metagaming problem so far. That should say something about me.


*edited* PS, I never even knew who the player of that girl was. Originally I was less upset because I thought it was a newb player I mistakingly made have a bad time. But now that I know it's you....a player who has been here some time and clearly knows the rule...it makes my shame about the incident twicefold.

And, yes, honestly this player had enough with you as well, so please lets talk in PMs or with DMs about it, because I refuse to bring it into a topic war.

_________________

Signature by Qualiz

Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.

Sorry...an out is an out.

You can paint any specific scenarios you want about the TYPE of out.

You can think a strategic withdrawal is "you leaving your home and breaking your oaths"

Those things you interpret yourself. I never told you to forsake your god or your oaths.

I said "Get the hell out".

You interpret that however you want...but usually it simply means "go away"

And no it was not OOC...I don't recall any // in front of that statement.

in fact I distinctly remember typing *dumps in a portal*

Then when you didn't I said it again more like this: *DUMPS into portal*...which you refused again...so stop trying to paint yourself like a victim. You broke multple rules(to which you even admit to it). Your bird shouldn't have spoken to even ONE person. whether in Winya, Cordor, or anywhere else.

You couldn't even respect my RP enough to just leave...no you had to remain and then had the nerve to get up after it all and try to RP like you did something special.

Dumps a dead body in a portal? Well, did the portal opened? Did you use one charge of your wand? no, OOC.

MY BIRD DIDNT SPEAK. It is a hawk, it flies high and fast, but do not speak. One person would have recognized the bird and that person arrived after everyone else. How they got there, I have no clue. Maybe the person that raised me and ran? Maybe they were going to the forest because they are druids? I have no damn clue, dont try to blame that one on me.

And not answering anymore. PM me or DMs with the complaints.

_________________

Signature by Qualiz

Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.

Sorry...you can paint it all you want...you broke rules, and thankfully you mentioned this incident otherwise I only would have had suspicions that you were metagaming.

Now I finally have evidence to confirm what I ALWAYS suspected, thanks to you.


Here you have it fellows: Above proof that a player of a good guy isn't neccesarily a good guy and that they cheat too.

Now I only wonder how many other times did a "bird" fly off to warn the goodies.


PS No offense but I don't want to PM a player who has already brought up a specific incident, then makes claims that I'm doing her dirty while she metagames and refuses RP. All these things I said I told Bobo and Disco WAYYYY before this thread existed.....good to know that fro once I am not just seeing things.

If qirlan sent a hawk off the people would come to fight him!

_________________
Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

This topic annoys me beyond reproach, as it underlines the hypocrisy of what certain people want. So often do players of necromancers, banites, cyrcists, tieflings, etc tell me how fed up they get at the feeling that their evil characters and their deeds are taken for granted, never feared. How you can conduct ic the most immoral acts and everyone shrugs them off.

And then, at the same time they want to be tolerated everywhere, be untouchable for their foul actions when somebody does care. They want a 2hour resumee of why the druid, or paladin, or cleric of lathander of kelemvor would be instantly violent against such a disgusting, vile and evil action? It stinks and I am sick of hearing the whining, not only as a good player but also an evil player who is forced into the same category where evil is treated as a silly fluffy rabbit with a mental disorder.

You cant have the cake and eat it too. So often it is attempted on this server to try to have two incompatible things. I am sick of certain players wishing to be respected, adored and tolerated and at the same time expect to be feared as the dark lord of undeath or evil by the general playerbase. A person who surrounds himself or herself with rotting walking corpses produced by dark magic should expect not to be treated with tolerance, kindness or empathy.

If this is a server where I am called chaotic evil for the actions of Sharina, repeatitly I might add in this topic, and evil itself is to be treated with silk gloves because they are not so bad? Again, it underlines the hypocrisy of what certain people want.

Throwing a body into a portal is an IC way of giving you a chance to get to a place of your chosing where you can be restored and continue playing instead of forcing you to lay in one place for hours. I always considered it the polite thing to do, letting the other char be on their way and making it easy on them to get back to the game. It's an IC way to to allow you to port out and ''respawn'', should be common courtesy really.

I sort of agree with you Phearnun....but for different reasons.

We can be treated as Necromancers but we can't act like them.

Even if I had no undead...i has already been made clear my characters mere existence is enough for you to PvP.

If so the same should apply to goodies too.

Hence, yes, I SHOULD be able to attack anyone simply because of who they are(with RP of course).

Not because I'm simply evil...but because those same supposed goodies would do the same to me and I need to DEFEND myself.

You are sick of huggy bad guys...and I'm sick of Evil antihero types who claim they're good.

BTW...in all the times I have been in the forest....I haven't summoned any undead for ages.

It was only after I had been attacked repeatedly by druids and EO(even when there was NO undead) that I got fed up and said "Screw this I'm going to be as evil as hell and kill anyone who doesn't have enough sense to flee for their lives"

But NO, I am NOT going to play along with you if your win is based on Metagaming..as I suspected and was right about.

She may have considered the portal a way of taking her for some torture RP/capture RP, to be fair. The trick to all of this most of the time is to just calm down a bit. With pvp, sometimes for a whole variety of reasons people get OOCly annoyed temporarily. You have to give people a few minutes to chill sometimes, rather than argue back. Also, empower them as players in the situation even if their character is weakened. Let them decide what state the char is in, is it KO'd? Dead? (some people abuse this imo, but I think that has happened to me like once ever). I have seen evil (probably any alignment really) characters/players do stuff that is honestly one step away from just being an OOC jerk. Your job is to make the pvp as fun as possible, some people will always whinge but you can still try to make it fun. Search them, let them interact with you..find out about their character after the defeat.

I've had players who were pissed off with me OOC after pvp say, during the following roleplay, "actually, this is kind of interesting, sorry for getting annoyed back then". You just need to give people those few minutes and try to make the roleplay fun for them. Some will always whinge, but amia has a good playerbase overall. I think I have pvp'd Delarwyn before and I dont think their was any drama, cannot recall who won.

_________________
Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

Since we're being called out publicly here...

The incident in question was very shortly (and I mean a few minutes tops) after a huge brawl in the very area you were standing in, involving five Banites and about twenty good guys. Three of our guys got captured, while Audrey and I went off to rebuff and attempt a rescue. When we returned you were there with one other person, and that's why you died.

So, saying there was no warning or out given in that situation is a little dishonest. Not five minutes prior you were running around shooting your bow at Banites and you were with a group that had captured three of our people. It seemed perfectly reasonable to me to attack you there, based on the prior RP that had occured, until I read the "escape clause" in the PvP rules, which I personally find a little bizarre but didn't know about at the time. So in the context of that rule, I take full responsibility and apologize, and thank you for rolling with it anyway.

As far as what happened after that, we will never, ever force someone to get a True Res. Our bodies are dumped into the water so they can wash up on shore and be found later. I don't go for the whole burying someone in an impossible to reach location bit, because I think it's borderline trying to force permadeath, and just plain rude on an OOC level.

_________________
Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)

I don't expect my character to be well-received for actions of good will. I expect certain terrifying characters (like Gurth, among others) to be well-received out of IC respect and fear. I expect certain paladin types to of course fly in the face of this.

But someone with a long-standing reputation of being a terrifying and horrible individual should have a reaction that matches it by the general populace, at least in my opinion.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, take Yaston for example. A somewhat legendary figure among the good guys of Amia. My character respects and fears him but will never show that in the presence of his brethren. However, I'm sure Yaston can confirm, anytime he's caught my guy one on one, he showed the proper hesitance in engaging the knight in battle.

I just grow tired of the constant "*charges into battle against overwhelming odds because I'm brave OOCly because I know I can't really die*" and the "My character is a paladin so he doesn't -know- fear." stereotypes. It gets old and boring and to be honest, kind of ruins immersion. At least for me.

I don't mean to try and tell people how to play their characters. I'm just expressing a general rant. And I know that's what it is. It's just how I feel however. It's not meant as a slight against how anyone plays their characters or to degrade anyone's RP. Take it for what you will. I honestly enjoy RP'g with the masses on Amia.

_________________

THIS!

Is there no more room for courtesy on the server anymore? I've used this technique often as there are just some people who don't want to become drow art and then tortured and killed. Go figure. For that matter isn't it funny how often I kick someone through a portal, wheather my own or thiers (i.e. They are dead and unless thier port wand is well hidden and difficult to use themselves, I can activate it.), that I find 10 to 20 PC's buffing like mad in the forrest?

_________________
Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.

-Krrja

Very much agreed.

And I greatly disapprove of the childish fighting and namecalling in this topic.

_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

Usually when a person emotes *dumps in a portal* I rarely see it to mean "get ready for more torture RP".

I actually thought I was giving you an OOC courtesy by dumping the body.


BTW another little note about that incident.

Tyd tried to use his Epic dragon to remove the body as well.

She claimed it was *fixed to the floor, glowing blood coming forth with the essence of Meliekki..

So please stop trying to make yourself look better than you were....we completely made many attempts ICly just to be rid of you.

And when that failed I made sure at least that you'd stay dead by killing you without an OOC raise...so you could respawn and simply go away. Tyd was merciful enough to OOC raise you(twice actually).

And yes Jyro is right in his post. Too many times is it that supposed goodly folks have little to NO respect for their evil counterparts..because death is negligible and every goodly person is too fearless to simply walk away alive. Likewise in return, I have little respect afterwards when goodies randomly appear in random areas only because you are about.

Yeah...heh...I'm still stuck on knowing that now any chance encounter I have with goodies could have been a metagamed affair.

And honestly the only one to blame for the threads degradation was the one who posted a specific incident...twice already...and somehow thinks their metagaming is fine.

I would look past it if they simply owned up to it..and apologized for being the cause of all the hassle in the first place that occurred that day. Even telling one lvl 1 newb through a tell when they're at winya is enough for that on person to get ten other epics...which is what happened that day.

*facepalm*

I doubt this thread will get us anywhere.

_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

If there is an act that you do not agree with, you do not become part of that problem, you show you are better than that and become part of the solution, however ill fated it may be. You rise above the childish antics and do not make yourself as guilty as the person you are angry with by doing exactly the same.

Edit:

This is meant for both those who copy childish and immature behavior because person XYZ did it, and those who make sure their characters act like disrespectful teenagers to those opposite on their field because there are people opposing them that do it. It is a vicious circle that only makes this server look like bickering children. If people start rising above that and stay committed to it, and do not excuse themselves with saying everyone else's actions justify their own, then there is a real chance for things to improve drastically.

~ Tyd what? He was telling me on tells, sorry if I could help you I would, but I cannot. I didn't even see Tyd at all? Are you certain it was me? Tyd, dude? Your dragon tried to remove me? O.o Meh, I must have been so pissed off because I personally took a dislike for the player in the first time I met him that if there was a dragon I didn't see. I remember being oocly raised and killed by summons like three times, then a girl came and raised her and ran away. But, Tyd? Dude, you did that and I ignored you? Because if yes, I apologize. >.< ~





~ I remember someone raising me yes and undead killing me. Didn't know it was Tyd, he was indeed trying to help me, we were talking in tells actually while I was alive. I don't know how to send tells while dead, you can ask anyone in game that knows me. I use the message thing to send tells and say dude, cant answer cause I am dead. ~



~ That must be nice to be that person that when in risk, can actually call in ten epics to save her. Wow!!! I didnt know I had power. Amazes me that I do, truly. We should actually make a druid army people? What do you think, if you care enough to save my new char, you probably would like to have an army with me?

I made one mistake, I sent the hawk to Avae, thru party, while a DM was in the DM channel, and I said out loud, Ariel go and fetch help!! - You knew I have sent the bird out. I didn't hide that from you in one second. Because, I honestly thought I could. People don't do things like that in the open when they think it is wrong.

Also, you can blame me as much as you want for your mistakes. I assume mine.

The portal thing shouldn't be an imposition, if it is a courtesy, I could as well refused and have my dead body there bleeding as hell. I never said my body had got stuck in the ground dude, now you are plainly lying.~

Now, DMs, I request to be banished for having used my bird to call for help. I also, dislike the player so much that I probably acted moved by that feeling in ways that I wouldn't have with other characters. So, feel free to ban me, just let me know for how long. And honestly, I wish I could just ignore his characters from now on, I don't like to have to accept any rp that comes from him, really. But, Peeves told me I am not allowed to.

Banite Boss, that is why I didn't say a thing. It made all sense to me that you would attack me at that moment, rules or not. I was hanging around in a battle field. I should have being smarter. It was good rp and such, I cannot honestly complain about it at all. Took three days to get my char back, but I think it was all done in good rp.

_________________

Signature by Qualiz

Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.

Sorry...don't expect sympathy from me...you could have avoided the problem all together(and got me dead in a way that doesn't involve cheating) By doing as I had asked in-game...and simply going away.


And please stop lying. YOU DID Rp having your body be immovable. TYD did try to move your corpse...you chose as a player to be stubborn and bullheaded.

If you have an issue with me as a player...ALL the more reason you should have simply left. If you were moved by OOC feelings it just adds to the idea that you'd cheat to see my character fall.

You could have easily uh...walked the hell away...it was your choice to remain. I gave you an oppurtunity to leave whether for your IC reasons or OOC feelings I could care less.

I have players that I do not like..and I avoid them at all costs...even if they were in Tarkuul. The only time I ever became a huge pain is when one of these players continually thrusts themselves in my face..and leave me no out(which has happened but not since long ago).

At one time I had a player who OOCly hated my character and would go out of his way to PvP me...knowing his powerbuilt RDD would destroy my character anyday of the week. I now know this to be grieving..though I was new at the time. The difference was he gave me NO out.

You had an out..and an easy one to. Mind you since I don't check player names to see if it's someone I hate, I simply thought you were new.

But now that I know it's you...you were just being stubborn and an ass simply because it was me....which doesn't make me feel any better about you as a player.

And no..I wouldn't ask for a DM to ban you or what have you...because it's their decision to make and I'd be no better if I asked for punishment for a first offense(not that I'd ask for any punishment anyways)

In fact, I even told the DMs please not to trip on the character so hard...Bobo can tell you that if he chooses to.

But honestly seeing your posts..and now knowing you have such a dislike for me that it caused the whole beef, and knowing it was you that was the character in question...I almost regret trying at all the get the DMs to spare the rod.

Guys, seriously... Take it to PMs or get a DM to mediate elsewhere. This is not the place.

_________________

Both of you cut it out. Show your dirty laundry to each other in pms, but dont get a topic locked just because you somehow find it joyous to attack each other in a public forum topic.

You're right. I'll leave this thread with this...my private message to Bobo about the incident in question...judge for yourself about me all you like:

I hate to repeat myself, but to again underline my point with your display.

This topic is done.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham