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Wood elves, where can I find every bit of lore on them?

Nowhere. There's probably more lore on them than any other elven race, once you realize that most of the late elven nations were primarily wood elven and elven history on Faerûn since the Retreat has been very woody.

There's also the difficulty that there are no wood elves prior to 3e. There were sun elves, moon elves and green elves, but 3e introduced sun elves, moon elves, wild elves and wood elves. The wood elves are apparently the "new" race, though they certainly got some green elf characteristics and wild elves became more feral than the original green elves. So read about both green elves and wood elves.

Begin with Races of Faerûn, and check Lost Empires of Faerûn for the kingdoms and history (and Grand History of the Realms, of course), then see what Elves of Evermeet and Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves have to say. You can get the latter here, if you don't have it already: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads

Basically, wood elves are the elves that stayed behind, kinda like a Moriquendi rip-off. They're native to Faerûn not because they were there from the beginning, but because they evolved from other elven races (green elves?) during the Crown Wars and stuff. Now they hang around High Forest and such, protecting the sites of old elven empires. You'll find some contradictions in different books about which kingdom was dominated by which race. I got the impression they're the nicest of the elven races, or the least haughty and self-righteous, though they're less outgoing than moon elves.

TormakSaber wrote:

They exist, yes. As for Shadovar, ask Mahtan.

Mahtan?

EDIT:

Secondary question: ...Shades and Shadow creatures. Are they or are they not undead? .. I had ..naively thought by definition of undead meant that the creature in question had to have at some point had something to do with death.

I was then told something along the lines of there being an undead plane where shades were summoned from that had nothing to do with death.. Do shadow creatures come from multiple dimensions? Is the shadow plane secretly all undead? Will our heroes save the day?

Er.

You are confusing "Shadow" and "Shade". In FR, these are two very different things.

Shadows are undead. (unless summoned by SD,s then they are outsiders.) They are your standard Shadow, Shadow Fiend, Shadow Lord undead things.

Shades are creatures created by the Princes of Shade in the Nethese Enclave of Shade City on the Shadow Plane. Living creatures are turned into Shades by them (Not Shar. Shar does Not make Shades.), whereupon they serve the will of the council exclusively. Any and all Shades are doing nothing more but the will of the Princes and have no real free will anymore. Every move they make is towards a purpose.

~

Re: Mahtan - Mahtan Tasadur? You know. The DM?

Err.. sorry. I wasnt actually confusing them.. just using the wrong words, apparently. I'm talking about the black shadowy things that chill out when you summon them.

TormakSaber wrote:

Shadows are undead. (unless summoned by SD,s then they are outsiders.) They are your standard Shadow, Shadow Fiend, Shadow Lord undead things.

Why is it different for SDs, out of curiosity?

and

TormakSaber wrote:

Re: Mahtan - Mahtan Tasadur? You know. The DM?

...brain dead..sorry

We use the Manual of the Planes variant for Shadowdancers... along with a healthy bit of homebrew... which ties Shadowdancers to the Plane of Shadow instead of the Astral Plane. Hence their shadows become Outsiders from the Plane of shadow.

So Shades are basicly Nazgul? And not dead, obviously.

Is it possible for a sufficiently dedicated and RPed shadovar PC to become a shade?

QPR wrote:

So Shades are basicly Nazgul? And not dead, obviously.

Basically.

Quote:

Is it possible for a sufficiently dedicated and RPed shadovar PC to become a shade?

I'm not going to answer this because Mahtan knows a lot more than I do. But from what I know, the answer is a resounding "No".

If a SD can summon an Outsider from the plane of Shadows that isnt 'undead' why cant anyone else?

Because homebrew. There is no good answer.

TormakSaber wrote:

Because homebrew. There is no good answer.

Would I be totally out of line to ask ...why is the decision made that the shadow conjuration version is undead, if the decision was made that the shadowdancer summon wasn't?

Not trying to press the issue.. just seems like someone would have had to consciously choose for the same creature to be treated differently based on who was creating it.

Would be nice if it was like.. Good and Neutral call an Outsider, Evil calls undead or something.

Isnt Salandra home brew and kinda Amia replacment version of Ilmatar or something?

Nope. Salandra is homebrew but doesn't replace anyone. More about her is available on the Amia wiki.

Xenos wrote:

If a SD can summon an Outsider from the plane of Shadows that isnt 'undead' why cant anyone else?

Because Shadowdancers are the only readily-available (IE; Non DM Approved) class that has a direct, fundamental link to the Shadowplane, innately, through their abilities. Thus, they can most readily draw upon elements associated specifically with that plane (IE; Shadowstuff)

but isn't that what the shadow-conjuration spell is about?

I'd say that's something to hypoethsise ICly, TBQH. As for the mechanics of it - It's a design choice. I'd imagine it's simply got something to do with the fact an ordinary Non-Shadow Adept mage is going to have some trouble conjuring -raw- shadowstuff. Shadow Conjurations are all Illusions that are only 40-80% real (hence they're so mallaeable for variable spells), so doesn't really give you much when it comes to summoning an -actual- object of shadowstuff. Much less one of fighting capacity.

Oh oh oh.. so its an illusion of an undead! Not REALLY an undead!

brooksthegreat wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Because homebrew. There is no good answer.

Would I be totally out of line to ask ...why is the decision made that the shadow conjuration version is undead, if the decision was made that the shadowdancer summon wasn't?

Not trying to press the issue.. just seems like someone would have had to consciously choose for the same creature to be treated differently based on who was creating it.

Because houserule.

Xenos wrote:

Oh oh oh.. so its an illusion of an undead! Not REALLY an undead!

No. You're summoning a Shade (which is an undead creature). You're just summoning one that's superficial, weak, and only as powerful as the people encountering it believes it to be. It's still undead.

Shadow Conjuration wrote:

You use material from the Plane of Shadow to shape quasi-real illusions of one or more creatures, objects, or forces. Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 3rd level or lower.

Shadow conjurations are actually one-fifth (20%) as strong as the real things, though creatures who believe the shadow conjurations to be real are affected by them at full strength.

Any creature that interacts with the conjured object, force, or creature can make a Will save to recognize its true nature.

Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless the affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth (20%) damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is only 20% likely to occur. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow conjuration’s level (4th) rather than the spell’s normal level. In addition, any effect created by shadow conjuration allows spell resistance, even if the spell it is simulating does not. Shadow objects or substances have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them.

Against disbelievers, they are 20% likely to work.

A shadow creature has one-fifth the hit points of a normal creature of its kind (regardless of whether it’s recognized as shadowy). It deals normal damage and has all normal abilities and weaknesses. Against a creature that recognizes it as a shadow creature, however, the shadow creature’s damage is one-fifth (20%) normal, and all special abilities that do not deal lethal damage are only 20% likely to work. (Roll for each use and each affected character separately.) Furthermore, the shadow creature’s AC bonuses are one-fifth as large.

A creature that succeeds on its save sees the shadow conjurations as transparent images superimposed on vague, shadowy forms.

Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.

I'll paraphrase this for the reader;

Shadow Conjurations are only fractionally as real as the spell they're imitating (A Fireball is only 20% real when cast by Shadow Conjuration).
You get a Will Save to realize it's illusory in nature (Not Fully Real).
If you pass this Will Save - you only take the 'real' portion of the effect (20% damage, in the fireball example.
If you fail the save - you take full effect (100%)

This 20% Applies to many things. The Hit Die of a summoned creature (Shadow Conjuration in NWN summons a Shade, which is an undead creature) is reduced, and its damage is reduced if the person being attacked by it knows it isn't 'real'.

Allow me to put it this way. It's like a magic trick (in the traditional sense). For those who believe in it - that really is a fireball hurtling towards you. The skeptical or the observant, however, saw that plume of dust before it which is simply being illuminated brightly to look like it. It's still hot and burns, but not as much as the illusion tricks you into believing.

How this translates into 'damage' is weird, but hey. It's DnD.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, however...

Shadow Conjuration creatures spells, effects, items and creatures which are only quasi-real. They still 'are', but are mere figments of their true power. A Summoned Shade, is still an undead, and a Shadow-cast Fireball is still an exploding ball of fire. However the shade is pathetically weak once realized for its fallacy, and the fireball is about as powerful as a handful of matches once you realize the trick.

The headache that comes from the Shadowdancer vs Mage thing is purely a naming issue. Shadow Conjuration summons a Shadow, an incorporeal undead with draining abilities. Shadowdancers conjure humanoid creatures made of shadow-stuff which are... also... called a Shadow.

Therefore - Shadow Conjuration = Undead.
Summon Shadow (Shadowdancer) = Outsider (or Elemental, depending on how you reason Shadowstuff)

We should change one set of names.

Na, Salandra isn't a replacement for Ilmater. She's a demi-god in his service. She couldn't replace Ilmater, he's awesome and she's... not... >.>

The OOC answer to the SD question is probably this: DMs played nature-based SDs who wouldn't have summoned undead so they made the rule. OK, maybe it wasn't quite as straightforward as that, I'm sure many other SD PCs had no IC reason to summon an undead, either. I wouldn't know for sure, the rule predates any of the current DMs.

Those answers were more helpful. Thank you.

As for the Shadow conjuration damage effects; think back on Khalas tent in BG2; the werewolves would only hurt you if you believed in them, and fought back.

NwN does not give any will save before the damage is calculated, yes?

Correct. In NWN, Shadow Conjuration is just a spell that lets you summon a Shade of varying powers, and case a handful of cruddy lower-tier spells at standard power.

Now that Tenser's is finally pratical, I have a question about it.

Is it okay for the mage/user to RP visual things happening to them when they use it? Nothing big or lycan-like, but maybe skin color changes, of course muscles bulge, patterns across the body, minor claws, etc? It is transmutation after all.

Why would the spell give you claws?

The Shadow Weave is a force of magic similar to the Weave. The Shadow Weave originates from Shar rather than from Mystra. Shar studied the Weave long ago, and created a dark distorted version of it — it is said to lie in between the strands of the Weave. Though the Shadow Weave has existed for quite some time (at least several millenia[1]), only in recent years has its use spread rapidly and become known.

A spellcaster who wants to manipulate the Shadow Weave must either worship Shar, permanently lose a piece of his or her mind[2], or make some sort of arrangement with Shar and his or her existing patron deity[3]. A Shadow Adept is a spellcaster who specializes in using the Shadow Weave.[4]

The Shadow Weave is best suited for dark magic that drains life or muddles the mind and the senses, but less suited for magic that manipulates energy or matter. Spells from the schools of Enchantment, Illusion and Necromancy are enhanced, while those from the schools of Evocation and Transmutation are impaired. The Shadow Weave is also superior for fueling spells that create darkness (spells with the darkness descriptor), while it is impossible to use it to create light of any kind (spells with the light descriptor).[1]

Since the Shadow Weave is a separate force of magic, it is not affected by areas of dead magic or wild magic within the Weave[5]. An anti-magic field field however counters all magic within its area, and that includes wielders of shadow weave magic. Shadow weave users must also overcome any spell resistance a creature might have. It is harder for a Weave user to perceive, counter or dispel spells created by using the Shadow Weave, but at the same time it is also harder for a Shadow Weave user to affect spells created by using the Weave. Any magic item created using the Shadow Weave is a Shadow Weave item and affected by the same benefits and limitations as a Shadow Weave spell.[6]

Question about the shadowweave.

#1; is it allowed on amia?
#2 Must you be a Sorcerer, or can you use it in an arcane way?
#3 is it required to give up spells like "light" and "continual light" ?

1 - With DM Permission / Verification, yes.
2 - Wizard, Sorcerer, or Bard only.
3 - Yes.

TormakSaber wrote:

Dead wrote:

Just wandering, what would be the offspring of two dragons of different kind, say Blue and Red. Or Silver and Black?

It can't happen, and if I or any other DM sees you playing a silly dragon crossbreed you will be forced to pick one color, most likely the color closest to your alignment. It doesn't, and physically cannot happen.

Late response, but beter ever than never. Not playing it, just wandering, out of curiosity. Not possible like they just cannot have an offspring even if they mate?

QPR wrote:

Why would the spell give you claws?

Merely asthetic reasons in example. I imagine it's left to the leisure of caster anyway, like most thing about how spells and spellcasting actually "look" IC.

Dead wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Dead wrote:

Just wandering, what would be the offspring of two dragons of different kind, say Blue and Red. Or Silver and Black?

It can't happen, and if I or any other DM sees you playing a silly dragon crossbreed you will be forced to pick one color, most likely the color closest to your alignment. It doesn't, and physically cannot happen.

Late response, but beter ever than never. Not playing it, just wandering, out of curiosity. Not possible like they just cannot have an offspring even if they mate?

It's more of matter that they simply do not mate. No thought has gone into what happens if they do, because they don't.

Very_Svensk wrote:

The Shadow Weave is a force of magic similar to the Weave. The Shadow Weave originates from Shar rather than from Mystra. Shar studied the Weave long ago, and created a dark distorted version of it — it is said to lie in between the strands of the Weave. Though the Shadow Weave has existed for quite some time (at least several millenia[1]), only in recent years has its use spread rapidly and become known.

A spellcaster who wants to manipulate the Shadow Weave must either worship Shar, permanently lose a piece of his or her mind[2], or make some sort of arrangement with Shar and his or her existing patron deity[3]. A Shadow Adept is a spellcaster who specializes in using the Shadow Weave.[4]

The Shadow Weave is best suited for dark magic that drains life or muddles the mind and the senses, but less suited for magic that manipulates energy or matter. Spells from the schools of Enchantment, Illusion and Necromancy are enhanced, while those from the schools of Evocation and Transmutation are impaired. The Shadow Weave is also superior for fueling spells that create darkness (spells with the darkness descriptor), while it is impossible to use it to create light of any kind (spells with the light descriptor).[1]

Since the Shadow Weave is a separate force of magic, it is not affected by areas of dead magic or wild magic within the Weave[5]. An anti-magic field field however counters all magic within its area, and that includes wielders of shadow weave magic. Shadow weave users must also overcome any spell resistance a creature might have. It is harder for a Weave user to perceive, counter or dispel spells created by using the Shadow Weave, but at the same time it is also harder for a Shadow Weave user to affect spells created by using the Weave. Any magic item created using the Shadow Weave is a Shadow Weave item and affected by the same benefits and limitations as a Shadow Weave spell.[6]

A spellcaster who wants to manipulate the Shadow Weave must either worship Shar, permanently lose a piece of his or her mind[2], or make some sort of arrangement with Shar and his or her existing patron deity[3]. A Shadow Adept is a spellcaster who specializes in using the Shadow Weave.[4]

What exactly does this mean? We're talking "Insanity" or ...Like loose a piece of himself? Like empathy or so?

Any lore on Construct creation?

Depends on the type of construct you're looking at making.

Any lore that does come out on Construct creation I'd also like to look at (given Tuomas' original focus in his engineering studies), to help towards one of the things Tuomas has in mind.

Very_Svensk wrote:

A spellcaster who wants to manipulate the Shadow Weave must either worship Shar, permanently lose a piece of his or her mind[2], or make some sort of arrangement with Shar and his or her existing patron deity[3]. A Shadow Adept is a spellcaster who specializes in using the Shadow Weave.[4]

What exactly does this mean? We're talking "Insanity" or ...Like loose a piece of himself? Like empathy or so?

Mechanically I believe you permanently lose 2 points of Wisdom, and can only recover them by undertaking a quest for Shar and taking her as your patron.

Yes, in PnP you ave to take a feat and permanently sacrifice 2 points of Wisdom.

Would a good aligned kossuthian have any problems bashing down Spire giants?

Considering fire giants are foul-tempered, murderous, bloodthirsty brutes who prefer the destructive aspects of fire over the creative ones (and thus give Kossuth a bad name via their actions, probably), I'd think not. Internecine warfare between various branches of the same religion is not unknown.

Not to mention I think our lore on giant deities is a bit screwy. I think there's a specific fire giant deity, just like there's a specific frost giant deity (Kostische (sp?)). But, said deity isn't represented on Amia, and Kossuth is the closest we've got.

To check, are the frost giants of Brog at constant war with the Spire's fire giants? I know they always spawn right on the outside of the Spires, but I figured that's supposed to be like you're catching them in mid-seige of the Spire.

TBQH, I don't think they're at war. They'd more likely be allies against the horde of constantly trespassing insect adventurers. Nothing smooths over interracial hatreds or dislikes like a common (and very dangerous) foe. The Frosties just prefer the cold, and the Fire Giants like it hot.

Dark Immolation wrote:

To check, are the frost giants of Brog at constant war with the Spire's fire giants? I know they always spawn right on the outside of the Spires, but I figured that's supposed to be like you're catching them in mid-seige of the Spire.

They are relative friends due to a common enemy: Dwarves.

TormakSaber wrote:

Yes, in PnP you ave to take a feat and permanently sacrifice 2 points of Wisdom.

But what does this mean at an IC Level? Two less wisdom hasn't really affected anybody, since we're playing with 38 wisdom and 8 wisdom and work on the same level.

There must be something else...

It means it drives you batshit insane.

Gers wrote:

Depends on the type of construct you're looking at making.

Golems.

Yes, but specificly what kind of golems? Clay? Iron? Mithril? There's plenty of different types, each with it's own bit of lore behind how they're created, for the most part.

Take caryatid columns, one of my personal favorites, for example. First, you need to carve stone (marble or granite, I think) into the form of a statue of a female, then you need to embed an enchanted weapon (usually at least a +2 bastard sword) in them during the enchantment process. Once the golem is done, it appears to be nothing more than a very ornately and beautifully carved pillar. At least until it activates and begins laying about with it's own sword and breaking it's foes' weapons.

Gers wrote:

Yes, but specificly what kind of golems? Clay? Iron? Mithril? There's plenty of different types, each with it's own bit of lore behind how they're created, for the most part.

Take caryatid columns, one of my personal favorites, for example. First, you need to carve stone (marble or granite, I think) into the form of a statue of a female, then you need to embed an enchanted weapon (usually at least a +2 bastard sword) in them during the enchantment process. Once the golem is done, it appears to be nothing more than a very ornately and beautifully carved pillar. At least until it activates and begins laying about with it's own sword and breaking it's foes' weapons.

Well Iron, Mithril and Shield Guardians would help a lot lore-wise.

From d20srd.org:

Quote:

An iron golem’s body is sculpted from 5,000 pounds of pure iron, smelted with rare tinctures and admixtures costing at least 10,000 gp. Assembling the body requires a DC 20 Craft (armorsmithing) check or a DC 20 Craft (weaponsmithing) check.

CL 16th; Craft Construct, cloudkill, geas/quest, limited wish, caster must be at least 16th level; Price 150,000 gp; Cost 80,000 gp + 5,600 XP.

Quote:

A mithral golem’s body is sculpted from 8 ½ tons of pure iron and is then polymorphed into mithral (using wish). A mithral golem costs 250,000 gold pieces to create, which includes 5,000 gp for the body. Assembling the body requires a successful Craft (armorsmithing) or Craft (weaponsmithing) check (DC 30). The creator must be 25th level, have the Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armor feat, and be able to cast arcane spells. Completing the ritual drains 5,000 XP from the creator and requires geas/quest, haste, and wish.

Quote:

An adamantine golem’s body is sculpted from 45,000 pounds of pure iron and is then polymorphed into adamantine (using wish). The golem costs 500,000 gold pieces to create, which includes 25,000 gp for the body. Assembling the body requires a successful Craft (armorsmithing) or Craft (weaponsmithing) check (DC 40). The creator must be 30th level, have the Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armor feat, and be able to cast arcane spells. Completing the ritual drains 10,000 XP from the creator and requires crushing hand, geas/quest, and wish.

Quote:

A shield guardian is built from wood, bronze, stone, and steel. The materials cost 5,000 gp.

The creature’s master may assemble the body or hire someone else to do the job. Creating the body requires a DC 16 Craft (blacksmithing) or Craft (carpentry) check. The keyed amulet is fashioned at the same time, and its cost (20,000 gp) is included in the cost of the guardian. After the body is sculpted, the shield guardian is animated through an extended magical ritual that requires a specially prepared laboratory or workroom, similar to an alchemist’s laboratory and costing 500 gp to establish. If the creator is personally constructing the creature’s body, the building and the ritual can be performed together. A shield guardian with more than 15 Hit Dice can be created, but each additional Hit Die adds +5,000 gp to the market price, and the price increases by +20,000 gp if the creature’s size increases to Huge, modifying the cost to create accordingly.

CL 15th; Craft Construct, limited wish, discern location, shield, shield other, caster must be at least 15th level; Price 120,000 gp; Cost 65,000 gp + 4,600 XP.

There's also a similar critter to a shield guardian that can be constructed by priests, called the runic guardian. I couldn't manage to find an entry for them, but they're constructed so as to be able to store and cast up to six divine spells, which are held in by the runes that adorn the golem's body. Perhaps one of the other DMs can link some info on them.

Now that is funny, the 1st 3 need quite a lot of materials, yet the Shield Guardian doesn't require much, and not even a specific amount.

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