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TormakSaber
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 Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 3:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Erm, no, I've pretty much always espoused the "one run" 'strongly worded suggestion'.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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corypx
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 3:57 AM |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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762
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 4:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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TormakSaber wrote: Erm, no, I've pretty much always espoused the "one run" 'strongly worded suggestion'. No. You have specifically told me, in tells, that a person has a right to an area for as long as they are there. And while it is considered good sportsmanship to leave after one run an leave it to others, it is never required and will never be enforced.
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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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corypx
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 4:12 AM |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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762 wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Erm, no, I've pretty much always espoused the "one run" 'strongly worded suggestion'. No. You have specifically told me, in tells, that a person has a right to an area for as long as they are there. And while it is considered good sportsmanship to leave after one run an leave it to others, it is never required and will never be enforced. yeah but if your being lame, nothing is stoping the DM from IC taking over the monsters to make them have more then like 1 int and be like..... guys lets not fight him 5 at a time so he can rest heal and rebuff,lets all group up and gangbang them *spawn 40 monsters* _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
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762
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 4:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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What?
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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 5:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Wth? Cory?
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 6:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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762 wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Erm, no, I've pretty much always espoused the "one run" 'strongly worded suggestion'. No. You have specifically told me, in tells, that a person has a right to an area for as long as they are there. And while it is considered good sportsmanship to leave after one run an leave it to others, it is never required and will never be enforced. Times change. We "will never" have haks, either. Except we do.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dwagin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 6:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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It's definitely dapper-hat time.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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762
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 6:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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Times do indeed change, and that's all cool.
I'm just wondering why the rules haven't been updated to reflect this.
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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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Goblin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 6:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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So for all the hot-air spent on calling me an unwelcome s**tstorm, it would at least appear that the general opinion - not shared by all, but by enough to cause me concern at least - is that you shouldn't RP a character's traits and qualities till the game mechanics tell you that you're brave? That doing otherwise will, and should be an auto-kill?
I take it none of you have ever seen a roadsign that says "be a courteous driver" ? In my - hah, I'll say it - humble opinion (God willing may I be permitted) this should be advised, if not a concrete policy in RP aswell.
Could there be PvP rules a little better than "You must set hostile. Then everything goes!" Like with partying, a character 5 levels higher/below your own cannot gain experience. You can still join the group if everyone's willing to do without a little something. Would it be so impossible to create a system where either:
You recieve a prompt on the Action log (much like when a party invite is incoming) saying you've recieved a challenge, accept or decline by using your PvP tool.
You are simply not allowed to use your PvP tool on a character 5 levels lower.
You may use your PvP tool on a character 5 levels lower without either of the above coming into play - but a core rule stating that both characters MUST be in agreement before engaging in combat.
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 6:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Nothing stops the level 10 vfrom mouthing off to the level 30 and being brave.
In return, nothing stops the level 30 from reminding him what can happen when bravado goes too far.
Segregating by level is worse than the problem.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dwagin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 7:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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This scene sums it up for me. Its great, funny, but also illustrates the point that some are trying to make. You push the wrong buttons of someone you don't know? You could get an arse kicking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cpUXfoFr50 (Sorta Not safe for work due to ..err.. reasons.) You never know what the power level of someone is. They may look like an aging man or a shopkeeper, but they could be a master martial artist, swordsman or whatever, or look like a push over that retired from that life..
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
Last edited by Dwagin on Thu, Aug 05 2010, 7:14 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Goblin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 7:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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I'm having a hard time understanding why that is? Instead of being allowed to play a character from the go we should rightly tread on eggshells so we don't offend the high levels? As a point, it should be said that RP isn't impossible at lower levels and I won't take it out of context any further than it might have been, but it's become such a frequent occurrence that you can A) Ignore the high levels' RP because your character doesn't agree with whats happening, and for him to state that he disagrees will get your character killed; or B) Do the IC thing, confront the character and get your character killed - and see 20min - 1hr of RP wasted in all the time it takes to dev crit.
Why don't you just set up a play-pen where levels below 30 can crawl around like good little rugrats.
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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QPR
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 7:25 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Put it in another way: as a lower level, you have something to have fun with that the 30's don't: Fear. Yes, characters should, and will for the most part, fear those who are more powerful than themselves. This is not a constraint to RP as much as it is an encouragement. To be max level and have nothing to fear gets very boring after a short time, atleast for me. Being of a lower level forces you to take more options into consideration as to have to deal with more powerful threats than simply smack them with a stick.
Also, the fun in running away is vastly underestimated. To wriggle oneself out of a hopeless situation, either by cunning or sheer cowardice is very rewarding, even if your character might lose face. But that means you are roleplaying a character with more traits to him than stupid bravery. I would really like to see more cowards.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Dwagin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 7:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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Goblin wrote: I'm having a hard time understanding why that is? Instead of being allowed to play a character from the go we should rightly tread on eggshells so we don't offend the high levels? As a point, it should be said that RP isn't impossible at lower levels and I won't take it out of context any further than it might have been, but it's become such a frequent occurrence that you can A) Ignore the high levels' RP because your character doesn't agree with whats happening, and for him to state that he disagrees will get your character killed; or B) Do the IC thing, confront the character and get your character killed - and see 20min - 1hr of RP wasted in all the time it takes to dev crit.
Why don't you just set up a play-pen where levels below 30 can crawl around like good little rugrats. For some reason I am getting the distinct impression that this means play a concept of someone that will have a confrontational personalty/bent. Be it paladin, evil guy, or a smart-arse and you're upset that such would be slapped down because the PC isn't strong enough to prevent it from occurring yet. That occurring is RP. You just refuse to acknowledge/accept it, refusing to do so is bad form. You can not ignore rp. It is forbidden. You are asking for so much on one side while not seeing the other. I don't care if your Character Agrees or Disagrees with whats going on. You can NOT OOCly ignore it's occurring. Some things are evil, some things are egotistical. Put up, shut up, or fight it, through words or deed. If that gets the character killed, them's the breaks. Toril is a dangerous place. Do you think that PVP = End of RP? I see it as a consequence/part of RP. Confronting evil is the defacto things Paladins do. There's oodles of RP that can come from getting creamed. Pick up the pieces, drive to get stronger. My first character on the server was a wizardess, she got mauled kidnapped outside of Cordor by a demon and his drow manservant. I wasn't even level 10 at the time. Had only been on the server a few days. Know what I did? I roleplayed. Eventually she got free by being a good torture doll, begging, and desperate measures. And she was afraid, scared, hurt. She didn't wanna be weak. She wanted -revenge- for what happened. So she researched, found spells, got stronger, found where his contacts where, other people in his cadre, and.. eventually paid him back. QPR wrote: Put it in another way: as a lower level, you have something to have fun with that the 30's don't: Fear. Yes, characters should, and will for the most part, fear those who are more powerful than themselves. This is not a constraint to RP as much as it is an encouragement. To be max level and have nothing to fear gets very boring after a short time, atleast for me. Being of a lower level forces you to take more options into consideration as to have to deal with more powerful threats than simply smack them with a stick.
Also, the fun in running away is vastly underestimated. To wriggle oneself out of a hopeless situation, either by cunning or sheer cowardice is very rewarding, even if your character might lose face. But that means you are roleplaying a character with more traits to him than stupid bravery. I would really like to see more cowards. Some character types don't do that. Some can, some cant. And not being afraid of anything at level 30 just haven't ran into the right DM controlled Big Evil Thing that will eat them to reassure them of their proper pecking order.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 7:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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As I think you missed what Dwags said: If you don't want to run the risk of getting your butt handed to you, just try to get along. Its not invalidating of your RP pre-pvp and, as has been pointed out in numerous occasions during this thread, win or lose this is a game and it should be fun. ~If you are a sore loser? Get over yourself. You picked a fight with a bigger fish. ~If you are a sour patch winner? Get your act together and think of RP fall out that will be fun for everyone involved. ~If you are taking the game too seriously despite one party's efforts to make things fun for you? Then it is time to go play WoW or just give NWN a break till you can calm down and see that this is supposed to be entertaining. Goblin wrote: ...Why don't you just set up a play-pen where levels below 30 can crawl around like good little rugrats. If you'd be happier playing on a social server where everyone is lvl 40 and the most excitement is when someone decides to go bold and play a human... be my guest and more power to ya. Just don't imply that Amia should become such a place.
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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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Goblin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 7:41 AM |
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Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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Of course, to be ignorant to any post in the past I might be agreeing with you for the very first time. Or did I not mention that PvP when it has a RP cause behind it is a rewarding and fun experience... but honestly feel free to pick out the very worst from my posts if it makes you feel intelligent, one good turn and all that.
Of course, it couldn't possibly be percieved as an issue when someone of relevant faction surrounded by others states "do thus", with the backing of entourage - regardless of level - to be met with "Well I'm level 30 and I'll just own all of you" is poor form or discourteous. So, thank you - for once again strengthening the fundamental princepal of my grievance. That level 30's are above the RP of others just because they are level 30. I'll keep that in mind with my own and, go out my way to deny the RP of lower levels if I believe I can plough through them.
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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QPR
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 7:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Dwagin wrote: Some character types don't do that. Some can, some cant. And not being afraid of anything at level 30 just haven't ran into the right DM controlled Big Evil Thing that will eat them to reassure them of their proper pecking order. Those characters who can't run away because they are too brave/proud/disciplined or stupid then ofcourse face the consequences of their denial to to so. My point was that having someone more powerful than youself is really no constraint to RP itself. It may hinder your goal to be the most badass swordsman in the land maybe, but such glory is very shortlived and for the most part ignored. Being able to beat someone up quickly lose it's glory when the one you beat up can be sure to live happily ever after because things just don't die.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 7:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Goblin wrote: Of course, to be ignorant to any post in the past I might be agreeing with you for the very first time. Or did I not mention that PvP when it has a RP cause behind it is a rewarding and fun experience... but honestly feel free to pick out the very worst from my posts if it makes you feel intelligent, one good turn and all that.
Of course, it couldn't possibly be percieved as an issue when someone of relevant faction surrounded by others states "do thus", with the backing of entourage - regardless of level - to be met with "Well I'm level 30 and I'll just own all of you" is poor form or discourteous. So, thank you - for once again strengthening the fundamental princepal of my grievance. That level 30's are above the RP of others just because they are level 30. I'll keep that in mind with my own and, go out my way to deny the RP of lower levels if I believe I can plough through them. Uh, that's not what they said at all. They said that if you get your ass kicked, don't be upset OOC because t's just as valid RP as if the dragon slaying godkilling level 30 had kowtowed to your level 3.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 7:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Goblin wrote: Of course, to be ignorant to any post in the past I might be agreeing with you for the very first time. Or did I not mention that PvP when it has a RP cause behind it is a rewarding and fun experience... but honestly feel free to pick out the very worst from my posts if it makes you feel intelligent, one good turn and all that.
Of course, it couldn't possibly be percieved as an issue when someone of relevant faction surrounded by others states "do thus", with the backing of entourage - regardless of level - to be met with "Well I'm level 30 and I'll just own all of you" is poor form or discourteous. So, thank you - for once again strengthening the fundamental princepal of my grievance. That level 30's are above the RP of others just because they are level 30. I'll keep that in mind with my own and, go out my way to deny the RP of lower levels if I believe I can plough through them. The thing you need to understand is that as much as the lowbie has the right to RP as the character would, so too does the 30. If it's the RP of the lowbie to be a mouthy bastard, then such is their prerogative. But why should the 30's RP be denied if their natural response dictates acquiring recompense? Should they let the mouthy person get away with it because they're inexperienced? Maybe they would - if that's the RP of the character. I know my character who spends her time massacring demons in the Abyss wouldn't appreciate a member of a lesser race mouthing off to her. If the low level PC is too stupid or proud to apologise or run, the they take what their mutual RP bought them. No one's RP is denied, everyone's RP followed logically.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Glyph
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 8:02 AM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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mouthing off is all well and good, its when you have no clue ICly or OOCly that its coming, and you don't even know their level, or weather to flee and get the guard or attack.
I tried both, both failed. the PC guards are fakes. lawful/good my ass. and attack, through RP or just stabbity, failed. delayed fireball, dead.
either way your still talking about hunting so i'm leave the forums to you guys, and i'll see you in game.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 8:17 AM |
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Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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How would you know their level, and thus know whether to flee or attack, IC?
For a big advocate of 'RP', there seems to be alot of 'OOC' Considerations and reasoning being made. Guards acting Non-Lawful / Good? Handle with it IC. Big guy being a prick? Handle with it IC. Stronger Than You's kicking your hide? Handle with it IC.
The constant OOC Reasoning in this thread is depressing. No one is going to hold your hand OOC to help you along when it comes to your RP; you play your character, they play theirs, and see how it plays out. You get beaten up? Well, considering all PvP Requires an out, if your character didn't take the opt-out option, then such is life for that character.
If you want everyone holding hands, playing house, and so forth; there are other servers for it where it's more heavily encouraged. On Amia; all sides are permitted, from the action-heavy, high-conflict, pot-stirring side to the huggle-cuddle-snuggle-perpetual-drama side, and everything in between. Live and let live, and just take it all IC.
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Mostly Retired
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Glyph
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 8:25 AM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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I guess your right, and I agree take it out ICly
but
next time someone "ganks" one of my party members without hostiling, I will not be keeping it IC.
i'm trying to establish what went wrong here considering like I said I just failed my own attack because people walked off ICly while I was telling them OOCly I was about to attack, and then got no similar courtesies in this case.
there are -supposed- to be rules but I guess people don't even need the waiver anymore cause not one person here is listening to what I said.
(also everyone is assuming i'm pissed off, for the fifth time, this is not a complaint!)
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 8:46 AM |
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Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Unless you do something (Eg; start casting), no attacks should be happening without Hostiling first.
Also, just because you're courteous in one situation, doesn't mean everyone else has to be. It's one of those cold-bitter-truths about the world. It's good taht you showed courtesy and let them escape when you told them OOCly you were going to attack, but as long as an out is presented IC; no one is required to say anythnig OOC et-al.
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Mostly Retired
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Goblin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:23 AM |
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Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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Then why isn't it a rule for other people to be courteous? It is after all the very raw component of having a system or rules and any kind of order. How about, being courteous to situations and not character level, for one? I'm sick to the stomach of being told IC actions have IC consequence, where the hell is the consequence for those high levels who take the IC decision to attack lower levels - while from a RP standpoint the SITUATION would put the OFFENDER in a bad position?
Sure, argue that - it's up to their character to make the poor choice. Would their characters have made the same choices at ECL 8? 10? I doubt it. Scenario: Man walks into Cordor, he does something inappropriate and a Guard approaches. The Guard asks the man to leave politely, after identifying himself as a Guard - and is met with hostility. Several other Guards or good citizens approach and offer welcome aid to the Guard, the man resumes hostility and draws his weapons: The three Guards then draw theres, all with crossbows at close range aimed at the man (now please forgive the interruption of the story, but I don't give a damn what level a character is, if s/he has that many projectiles aimed at him/her their first reaction, realistically speaking, would not be 'I'll probably get the initiative, kill the one head on and great cleave the others')- and the climax is the man attacking the three Cordor Guards... then hanging about. Then leaving on his own accord, presumably to face no consequence for his actions, because he's level 30 and the Cordor Guards were only level 10-ish and should've known better than to do whats ICly expected of them. The cocky asses that they are.
There will no doubt be instances of people genuinely being annoying or overbearing, tempting fate. Even then it's surely more realistic to put your +5 sword of doom away and give the whelp a good kicking. Murder is murder, nomatter how cool your character might be. Again, situation granted irrelevance because the character and the friends of the character are all level 30 and no-one's gonna mess. How - very - tiresome.
But I've been told that this is Amia and I can accept that, as a relative outsider I just find it shocking to see what is given support on the server while the roleplay element (while strongly defended although in such a half-wit way) seemingly comes second.
RPing as Chaotic or Evil shouldn't be a free ticket to griefing.
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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QPR
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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The example with the Cordor Guard, or any Guard of a major city in general is moot because said offender would be stomped on by NPC law knights or somesuch until there was nothing left but fail-sauce
None here says that CE is a free ticket to griefing. All PvP requires IC reason and must give a fair IC out. That's as detailed as the rules will get. You can always avoid PvP if you want, but not by keeping up a brave act.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Goblin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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But if the offender was NOT stomped by NPC guards, or failed to recognize that NPC guards were around? It's not a moot point, it's discourtesy and failure to accomodate the IC consequences of being a level 30 raging twitchbandit. And it happens so very, very often, and they always get away with it. Are you REALLY going to say that it's the low level's fault for at least trying to stay true to his character and/or the mindset, rules, or fundamentals of the faction he belongs to? For my own experiences with this kind of situation I've kept IC with it by a RP perspective, but I'm not happy about it OOC and - Quote: OOC raise, RP actions, and getting pwnt because your ecl.. - is the name of the topic.
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Ur... we're saying that it's no one's fault and RP is just RP.
To take it OOCly and make it personal is your own personal OOC fault, though.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Goblin wrote: But if the offender was NOT stomped by NPC guards, or failed to recognize that NPC guards were around? It's not a moot point, it's discourtesy and failure to accomodate the IC consequences of being a level 30 raging twitchbandit. And it happens so very, very often, and they always get away with it. Then they're metagaming the guards and should be reported. As it boils down to, IC politeness is an IC action. Arguing that it makes no sense for someone 'realistically' to continue with that many crossbows pointed at them is empirically wrong - on the off chance they do hit, they don't do that much damage. We're talking about people who are routinely and repeatedly smashed by a half-dozen bulky giants. 'Realistically' doesn't apply because 'realistically' a single bolt will kill you - I know I wouldn't notice the HP loss on my chars. Sure, it would still hurt, but her surviving fifty bolts is all IC. Goblin wrote: Are you REALLY going to say that it's the low level's fault for at least trying to stay true to his character and/or the mindset, rules, or fundamentals of the faction he belongs to? IC actions have IC consequences. It's not an attack on the player, it's the actions of one character affecting the actions of another. Goblin wrote: For my own experiences with this kind of situation I've kept IC with it by a RP perspective, but I'm not happy about it OOC and - Quote: OOC raise, RP actions, and getting pwnt because your ecl.. - is the name of the topic. Well, there's the problem - you're not being killed because of your ECL, you're being killed because of your IC actions and ICly not being strong enough to back them up in a fight in which your character ICly chose to participate.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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QPR
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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If such happens in a city with guards present, the offender -is- stomped, unless a DM says otherwise. Period. To not take that into play is metagaming guards, which is not allowed. Where there are no guards it's different.
I am saying that if -any- PC does not take the out offered, then it has to face the consequences, regardless of levels. Ofcourse, somepeople can be turds, but there is just not much you can do about that. People -should- show courtesy and not do their best to annoy other players, but that is not the same as letting people go because they are much lower level.
My current, longest lived PC is now level 14. He has been in PvP once durings his one and a half year long life. Not because he sits in Cordor all day and twirls thumbs, but because he knows when to back down and choose survival over pride. There are instances where he will not back down, regardless of the odds, but those are very few, and when they do happen he does take the beating that follows.
It goes both ways; everyone needs to show courtesy, both the higher and lower levels.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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So really it's boiled down to "Their RP does not meet my point of view, and therefore it's wrong"
You're just adding a theoretical link between "Level 30" and "Bad RP". Why not relax, and just sit down and RP and worry less about what an inconsequential PvP does to your character. You lose no XP, Gold, or anything but a few minutes of your time (which you're spending playing a video game anyway).
Relax.
_________________
Mostly Retired
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Goblin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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It's not so much the RP or lack thereof thats bothering me. It's the way it all seems to be so readily justified on behalf of the troublemakers, who are able to act in any way they want without being challenged over it - and if they are, well they just kill you. I don't get it - am I severely retarded or something? I must be right?
A low level character may NOT be played in any manner the player chooses - because of consequence.
You MAY level to 30, and play your character as you had always intended, without fear of consequence.
That's all I'm seeing from everything that's said. And to go back to the very first post I made here:
"...I strongly recommend achieving level 30 before attempting any kind of serious roleplay..."
This view remains unchanged.
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Quote: "...I strongly recommend achieving level 30 before attempting any kind of serious roleplay..." This is slightly true.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Goblin wrote: A low level character may NOT be played in any manner the player chooses - because of consequence. They may be played in that way if the player so wishes. IC actions have IC consequences. A necromancer can't go raising undead will-nilly in the Kelly's Cathedral because of consequences, for example, whether they are level 3 or 30. Does this mean that other people's RP should suffer, so that each individual can do whatever the hell they want, without regards for the consequence? No. Goblin wrote: You MAY level to 30, and play your character as you had always intended, without fear of consequence. Consequences are consequences. If you're a big-mouth who picks a fight with you (or you challenge the big-mouth), and you can't put your money where your mouth is, that's your problem, whether your level 3 or 30. Goblin wrote: That's all I'm seeing from everything that's said. And to go back to the very first post I made here:
"...I strongly recommend achieving level 30 before attempting any kind of serious roleplay..."
This view remains unchanged. Well, that is stupid. You can do serious RP the entire way through. You just can't claim you're better than everyone, get killed, and then whine because dying ruined your RP.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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NinjaClarinet
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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Some people don't even ~try~ to disguise the ganking these days.
Level 30 guy: Give me 100,000,000 gold or I kill you.
Me: What? I don't even have that much.
Me: *dies*
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Silvarus
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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Goblin wrote: A low level character may NOT be played in any manner the player chooses - because of consequence.
You MAY level to 30, and play your character as you had always intended, without fear of consequence. I write it as: You can not play your character in a manner that does not represent his level. A lvl 3 can not be role played as badass and dangerous because they ARE NOT either badass or dangerous. They are weaklings and should be played as weaklings. A lvl 30 can be role played as badass and dangerous because they seriously are badass and dangerous. Just like a lvl 3 is reduced to really being a weak beginner in what they do a lvl 30 is also limited by their level. If they start acting like demigods in the same way a lvl 3 char might act like an epic distinguished hero, they will be smacked by real demigods, the same way lvl 3:s who think they are instant made heroes are smacked by the real things. A lvl 3 cleric for example is really a puny little worshipper of little significance no matter how you intend the character to be. If you want to give your lvl 3 a bacground of great heroism and epic deeds, you are doing it wrong. That is what character development during gaining those levels is for. In short: Players can not play any character as they choose and doing anything "as intended" usually is, wrong.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Nex_addo
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 May 2007
Location: New Zealand
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Quote: A lvl 3 can not be role played as badass and dangerous because they ARE NOT either badass or dangerous. They are weaklings and should be played as weaklings.
A level three -can- be played as a badass. You never had the smallest guy in school who thought he was the biggest baddest bully in the playground. Anyone can play their character how they want its up to them. How your character responds to this is up to you. Common sense people
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Silvarus
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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Nex_addo wrote: Quote: A lvl 3 can not be role played as badass and dangerous because they ARE NOT either badass or dangerous. They are weaklings and should be played as weaklings.
A level three -can- be played as a badass. You never had the smallest guy in school who thought he was the biggest baddest bully in the playground. Anyone can play their character how they want its up to them. How your character responds to this is up to you. Common sense people Yes of course, I was referring to the players OOC idea of how the character is instead of an IC bad attitude with nothing to back ip up with, which is more than fine, it is usually excellent role play.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Nex_addo
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 May 2007
Location: New Zealand
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Quote: I was referring to the players OOC idea of how the character is When he gets smacked out a couple of times from a really badass maybe he'll learn. It doesn't need to be said OOC that "Your not a badass"
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Silvarus
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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Nex_addo wrote: Quote: I was referring to the players OOC idea of how the character is When he gets smacked out a couple of times from a really badass maybe he'll learn. It doesn't need to be said OOC that "Your not a badass" Except that we have been saying that trough the entire thread with no end to the whining.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Goblin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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Silvarus wrote: I write it as:
You can not play your character in a manner that does not represent his level.
A lvl 3 can not be role played as badass and dangerous because they ARE NOT either badass or dangerous. They are weaklings and should be played as weaklings.
A lvl 30 can be role played as badass and dangerous because they seriously are badass and dangerous. Just like a lvl 3 is reduced to really being a weak beginner in what they do a lvl 30 is also limited by their level. If they start acting like demigods in the same way a lvl 3 char might act like an epic distinguished hero, they will be smacked by real demigods, the same way lvl 3:s who think they are instant made heroes are smacked by the real things.
A lvl 3 cleric for example is really a puny little worshipper of little significance no matter how you intend the character to be. If you want to give your lvl 3 a bacground of great heroism and epic deeds, you are doing it wrong. That is what character development during gaining those levels is for.
In short: Players can not play any character as they choose and doing anything "as intended" usually is, wrong. Directly translating without a shred of doubt: My character is higher level than yours. Roleplay is not a factor. My epic levels dictate that your character is pondscum regardless. I can't be the only one who sees this as wrong, surely?
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Goblin wrote: Directly translating without a shred of doubt: My character is higher level than yours. Roleplay is not a factor. My epic levels dictate that your character is pondscum regardless.
I can't be the only one who sees this as wrong, surely? You're one of the view who's misinterpreting it as such. My character is a higher level than yours. No matter how powerful your 'RP' may say you are, my RP does the same thing as yours, and my characters IC experience of slaughtering demons trumps your character's of running from orcs. Roleplay is a very important factor - you don't have to fight everyone you come across. And you say roleplay is not a factor, as if the lvl 30 should just roll over and accept the lvl 3 is stronger than him because of the lvl 3's RP ... what about the lvl 30's RP?
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
Last edited by Yurell on Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:50 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Goblin wrote: It's not so much the RP or lack thereof thats bothering me. It's the way it all seems to be so readily justified on behalf of the troublemakers, who are able to act in any way they want without being challenged over it - and if they are, well they just kill you. I don't get it - am I severely retarded or something? I must be right?
A low level character may NOT be played in any manner the player chooses - because of consequence.
You MAY level to 30, and play your character as you had always intended, without fear of consequence.
That's all I'm seeing from everything that's said. And to go back to the very first post I made here:
"...I strongly recommend achieving level 30 before attempting any kind of serious roleplay..."
This view remains unchanged. A low-level character can be played as a murderous scourge of the earth if he so wishes. It's simply a matter that, (here's the kicker), In Character he's going to be at risk of those who are, In Character, capable of stopping him. This applies no matter your level, actually. By your reasoning you can't play your Necromancer as a Necromancer because there are consequences (in this instance; the Eternal Order hunting you down). You can't play your Drow as a Drow because there are consequences (either other drow or elves will hunt you down). Note, in the above, you still can. Quite easily. You can play a level 3 murderer. The only thing a level affects is his ability. A level 3 Wizard is not an Archmage, nor is a Level 3 Fighter a demon-slaughterer. Yet they're both wizards and fighters. And both of these individuals are a part of the world where there are, indeed, Archmages and Demon Slaughterers walking around. If you can't deal with that, I suggest Local Vault servers. Ultimately this argument of "You can't play your character until Max Level" is nothing more than a game of self-indulgence. The only thing the 'levels' are stopping you from doing is setting their ability to 'Epic' when they start. Yes, a level 30 character is more powerful than a level 3 character; this isn't an OOC dynamic that is intangible to other characters. Someone who can slaughter a Balor, or mind-control a Vampiric Coven Leader is clearly more capable, more dangerous, and more talented than someone who's having trouble taking care of rats on an abandoned boat. If anything, this should mean -more- RP. You know, the journey of a mage from simple low-talent spellweaver to a fully fledged archmagi. Or an alley-thief becoming a master of stealth and subterfuge. If you're only interested in the end game, and any challenge to this end-game (such as something stopping your character being 'your character' and free to do as he pleases) of this is a 'problem', then really; you're playing both the wrong server - and the wrong game. Try Single Player for that.
_________________
Mostly Retired
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Silvarus
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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Goblin wrote: irectly translating without a shred of doubt: My character is higher level than yours. Roleplay is not a factor. My epic levels dictate that your character is pondscum regardless.
I can't be the only one who sees this as wrong, surely? I see nothing wrong here. Roleplay does not make your character any stronger. It can make him or her a damn good bluffer of course, which is wrong to ignore obviously if your character puts a lot of effort into giving a false appearance(a good guard stance can make you look like a sword master even if you have no idea on how to move from that stance, for example). However if someone calls that bluff, level and level alone is what matters, and people who destroy elder gragons for giggles can safely call a lot of bluffs. Since the challenge rating information has been removed from biographies and no one is forced to reveal their ECL OOC:ly, there should be no metagaming issue. EDIT: The only real problem is that people metagame the information that dying is harmless, which makes calling these bluffs and taking other lethal risks a tad too easy, but it is a separate issue which probably can not be helped.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Goblin
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 12:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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Groan...
By the same reasoning should the worldy-wise high level not have the common sense to not act a tool and murder other characters in NPC/PC patrolled zones?
Maybe I'm just a bit odd, in that, while I'm playing I see my character as flesh and blood. I don't think "Well I have 400+ HP those three crossbow bolts might sting a little". A living breathing entity, mortal and fallible. And with that said, just because low-level mouthes off at high-level, would it not be more courteous for high-level to appreciate the low-level's roleplay and do the Saturday morning cartoon villain/hero pull out? You know, not to acknowledge the characters assertive domination of their character but as a nod to instead acknowledge that it's about roleplay and not 'lolpwnt'?
Obviously that's up to the player to decide, whether to be fun and friendly or a slave to ego.
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 12:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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That comes down to the character. Much as the level 3 may choose to ignore the fact that a demon slaying blackguard can beat him to a pulp, a level 30 may choose to ignore the fact that the local guard is pointing blades at him.
In both cases, someone's getting hurt, irrespective of what either player, or character, thinks. Stabby Stabby Kill. The Level 30 is simply, ICly, more capable (note, capable =/= intelligent or wise) of surviving the crossbow rounds.
_________________
Mostly Retired
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Herra Tutteri
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 12:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Location: Vaasa, Finland
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Awesome... I remember Hunie being sacrificed to Lloth one time. I think it was Gabe's S&M matriarch.
_________________ Characters: Hunar Iroff, The red-bearded, grumpy dwarf with a bastard sword. Chair of Military Issues Daren Sten, High Inquisitor of the Eternal Order of Kelemvor on Amia 
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Pony
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 12:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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Herra Tutteri wrote: Awesome... I remember Hunie being sacrificed to Lloth one time. I think it was Gabe's S&M matriarch. You know I <3 you.
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Galenson
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 12:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
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Glyph wrote: and since I never got a tell, wasn't asked if i'm ok with having my eye ripped out, I think my attempt at unting myself and hopping away should have been a sufficient clue that I wasn't entirely enjoying the RP XD. however it was well done and all parties agreed to let it slide, albeit without discussion from the people in question who did this. To put this into perspective, this sounds like the handywork of my fellow greenskin players and to be honest... I'm proud of them for being pro-active in my absense. However, to explain their actions and to beat them senseless for being in the wrong, I need to make a few assumptions: 1) I'm assuming you were in the Bramble Wood or the Underdark. 2) I'm assuming you were playing as an elf character, or acting like one. If it -was- either of the above, or both for that matter, the players acted as they were instructed to by myself. If the OP has any further issues regarding how they were treated on this specific occasion, feel free to PM me the details and I'll discuss it further.
_________________
Plays:
"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."
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Stormsorrow
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 12:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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StandingBehindYou wrote: DustSpray101 wrote: Nwn isn't like pnp; You cannot tell a person is higher level than you by how shiney their armor ias. You can't tell that in PnP either. If their sword is glowing and you know you're using a +1, they're probably higher level, but that's also true in NWN. If there are any PnP rules that let you tell the difference between +2 and +3 armor just by a casual glance, I haven't heard of them. Either you need to cast Identify (an hour-long ritual), or succeed at a DC 50+ spellcraft check if you're using rules from the really bad epic level handbook. I've been playing tabletop for years and nothing I've seen or heard of ranging from ADnD to the 4.0 doesn't say anything of the sort (I used google, talked to a few DM's on MSN of various campaigns on MSN, and even looked in rulebooks myself). You have to examine it IN your hands and then the DM gives you a detailed description based on what the DC check is. You can do that with the characters themselves by Deducing True Name, which is in the d20 Mongoose supplement "The Quintessential Witch" and only usable by the Gypsy Matron, but you can't get a level out of them. You get what race they are, how old, not to mention control over them within reason (i.e. Not putting them in a situation of apparent death). It's an Su ability. I wanted to reply to this poster directly to affirm their statement. I just wonder if the DMs would approve of Contingent Resurrection spells? Pretty please? (Just kidding.  ) _________________ Created by Jadyn
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