|
|
|
Ace of Swords
|
 Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 4:15 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
|
Selvec Darkon wrote: Selmak wrote: A vault wipe is overkill. Nobody can be accused of being a drama queen for objecting to a vault wipe.
I don't mind so much starting what is essentially a new character. I've found that being a fresh level 3 is the bestest and most challenging time for a character. What I object to in a server wipe is the need to go through the whole character creation wizard, however many times is needed to re-create my line-up of characters. And then there's the outfits.
Would it kill you to actually think about players as people instead of roleplaying machines with nothing better to do than sit in the character creator and customiser all day long? Actually none of what you typed is roleplay. I don't think of people as roleplay machines. Seriously now, what is up peoples ass about this? I made a suggestion based on personal opinion. A suggestion already shot down before many many times. Exactly why is it everyone feels the need to jump on me about it? Its not the end of the world when I make a suggestion, espically one thats likely to be ignored and as been said about 100x it's not going to happen. Bloody hell. Lighten up people. Well you did make the suggestion even knowing it would be shot down. Some people might think you actually entertain the idea of it happening. If I say something wacky I'll probably get jumped on for it too.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Selmak
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 4:29 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
|
|
In theory, you can get the same effect as doing a vault wipe, without actually doing it. You can:
Remove all item properties from all items on entry, turning everything except armour and weapons into useless junk. Then record the item cleaning and date on the PCKEY so it isn't repeated on new items.
Remove all gold down to 1000 GP or whatever you fancy.
Refuse to allow characters to leave the entry area if their ECL exceeds the level cap and can't be de-levelled, so that DMs can rebuild those characters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 4:43 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Selmak wrote: Refuse to allow characters to leave the entry area if their ECL exceeds the level cap and can't be de-levelled, so that DMs can rebuild those characters. The bright side to this is that you can fix RDD while you're at it  That said, I wouldn't support the process. Losing everything you own is exceptionally ... bleh.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
realpohlice
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 5:05 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Location: Giving a fuck when it ain't my turn to give a fuck.
|
That wasn't so hard, was it? Now we can understand one another better. Selvec Darkon wrote: Level 30 is the cause of the majority of reasons as to why Amia has an over influx of gold. I agree that Amia has an over influx of gold but I disagree on the premise that it's caused by Level 30s. I believe that a server's power level or how players choose to play their characters are totally irrelevant to Amia's economy. I believe that it's a systemic problem - an imbalance due to insufficient gold outflow and too fast of an inflow. And I believe that it can be rescued. Selvec Darkon wrote: Restarting with a server wipe also removes those people who originally gained loads of money in earlier times on items that were overpowered or priced badly. It removes those who horde their stash of gold and removes epic items that could possibly break any form enforcement on the current "user market".
[...]
A full restart is the only decent answer to this issue because any other fix can be broken via some other way. A clean slate is needed to implement the rules and standards needed to keep the marketplace level and fair. I also believe, and agree with you, that we need to take away the "loads of money [from] earlier times," if we ever want to move forward. I disagree on how you, and others, propose to do it. In fact, I believe a wipe is one of the worst possible ways to do it; especially, when there are better ways to achieve the same results. A wipe is unfair to the players, nonsensical to the setting, and a death-wish for Amia, the Devs, & the DMs. I also believe that a wipe, as a tool, is inefficient because it can't adapt to changing circumstances. You're assuming everything will work out perfectly after the wipe plus changes. What if something goes wrong and you've arrived in a similar state of economy we have now... Another wipe? Selvec Darkon wrote: Also, this is not the first thread of this type. I know and I'm tired of it. I, and I hope you do too, want this to be the last one. So let's take this seriously, mmmkay. ^^ I want to end this cycle. Can the Dev & DM team please do something or say that they won't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 5:49 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
Selmak wrote: In theory, you can get the same effect as doing a vault wipe, without actually doing it. You can:
Remove all item properties from all items on entry, turning everything except armour and weapons into useless junk. Then record the item cleaning and date on the PCKEY so it isn't repeated on new items.
Remove all gold down to 1000 GP or whatever you fancy.
Refuse to allow characters to leave the entry area if their ECL exceeds the level cap and can't be de-levelled, so that DMs can rebuild those characters. Then server dies.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dark Immolation
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 5:56 AM |
|
|
Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
|
Selmak wrote: In theory, you can get the same effect as doing a vault wipe, without actually doing it. You can:
Remove all item properties from all items on entry, turning everything except armour and weapons into useless junk. Then record the item cleaning and date on the PCKEY so it isn't repeated on new items.
Remove all gold down to 1000 GP or whatever you fancy.
Refuse to allow characters to leave the entry area if their ECL exceeds the level cap and can't be de-levelled, so that DMs can rebuild those characters. You forgot one step: Insert barrel into mouth. Seriously, anything wipe or wipe-like is just...well, you know what it is. Server suicide is not worth it at this point, there's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water, especially over something like this. People can continue to rp just fine even if their gold is worth dirt, but there's no rp on a server with, well, no freakin' body there cuz they all got pissed, and rightly so, after a wipe. My opinion is that goldsinks are the way to go, along with perhaps a graduated gold devaluation. Sort of like on a (reverse) square root curve, for those of you familiar with the grading method. The higher up in gp you have, the more it gets devalued, but in a way that you would still have more than the person who was devalued under you. In a very very simple example. 100,000 ->[Devaluation formula] -> 75,000 90,000 ->[Devaluation formula] -> 70,000 The person with 100k gets more devalued, but still ends up with a larger amount than the person who had less than them to begin with. Of course, this is not even a formula, I pulled the numbers out of a hippo's arse, but you get the point. To get back to gold sinks, all I can say is from personal experience, I've gladly spent a mil each month for my PC's house. We just have to find something that appeals to many different characters that they should -want- to spend gold that "goes away", but still gives them something. It doesn't have to be an item, houses case in point, but something that makes it seem worthwhile and can contribute to the overall rp of the PC. Perhaps gypsy wagons(used as movable houses), boats(-n- hoes), political bribing(likely after deval, but still continual and exorbitant amounts), things that can be -bought- but not necessarily held or traded. I particularly like the political bribing idea. Perhaps just bribing in general. Bribe the guards, you might "tagged" somehow where a DM can see you, and if you do some sort of minor infraction(dependant on the settlement), DM-possessed guards might cut you a break. PC guards of course are absolutely not held to anything with this(nor could they even see it playerside), but as always PCs can bribe other PCs just fine. Bribe the merchants, perhaps granted a modest appraisal boost when shopping in the settlement, for a week or month. Bribe the bartender, free drinks and maybe some inside gossip he may hear over the course of the day. There are numerous different ways we can get some good, decent, rp-encouraging gold sinks if we think out of the box.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Selmak
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 7:39 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
|
|
Well that's why I said, in theory. Hells if I would actually go along with it if I had the inkling that the server would you know, die.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 7:42 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
|
I still hold that the simplest gold sink is removing the cap on the respawn penalty. From there, DMs should be able to see how rapidly gold is leaving the economy.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Selmak
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 9:22 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
|
|
It only works if respawn is actually used. If I had a casual disregard for the cost of things, I might buy lots of escape items and use them when I'm in a tight spot instead of fighting futilely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 9:42 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Selmak wrote: It only works if respawn is actually used. If I had a casual disregard for the cost of things, I might buy lots of escape items and use them when I'm in a tight spot instead of fighting futilely. Which is why I suggested earlier forced respawn on reset or server-swap.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Selmak
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 9:53 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
|
|
Yes, but what I'm getting at is that if you don't die (because you run for the hills and don't look back) then you can't respawn. When you have a lot of GP and an uncapped GP penalty you can afford to be inefficient and wasteful, so long as you stay alive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 10:02 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Selmak wrote: Yes, but what I'm getting at is that if you don't die (because you run for the hills and don't look back) then you can't respawn. When you have a lot of GP and an uncapped GP penalty you can afford to be inefficient and wasteful, so long as you stay alive. If you're being inefficient and wasteful, is more money not leaving the economy?
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Murex
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 12:14 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
|
|
I don't think anything drastic needs to be implimented. The way it is really isn't so bad. If gold is worthless to a L30 character, who cares? Will they really not have enough gold to buy what they need if any idea here is implimented? By the time they are L30, they will probably have everything they need besides epic loot and maybe some greater mythal.
How is a L30 with tons of gold really a problem? Is it because epic loot costs more when epic characters have tons of gold? I don't see how this is bad. If you want epic loot, you either hunt for it, trade it, or buy it. Any epic character should be able to do those things. There is no unfairness. Everyone has the same system to work with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
corypx
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 12:40 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
|
Murex wrote: How is a L30 with tons of gold really a problem? I had this question as well but Tormak explained it as, because gold is worthless to once you reach 30 it is no longer a useful tool for the DMs to use. it is kind of sad when you walk into loot a dragons horde and when you look at his pile of gold you say "that is, I have more" because you do.... _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
Last edited by corypx on Tue, Aug 17 2010, 20:39 PM, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dramatic_Prince
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 12:44 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
|
corypx wrote: it is kind of sad when you walk into loot a dragons horde and when you look at his pile of gold you say "that is, I have more" because you do.... This game is old. Amia is old. You wanted it to be realistic, low magic world, closer to PnP? Should've stuck with the Arelith system. _________________ 
Prescia the Pristine Voice
|
|
|
|
|
|
Xaviera
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 13:12 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
|
realpohlice wrote: I believe that it's a systemic problem - an imbalance due to insufficient gold outflow and too fast of an inflow. It's systemic to NWN and persistent worlds that don't change every time you do something. If every monster permanently disappeared once it was killed, Amia wouldn't last until next reset. It has nothing to do with L30s but with the fact that the monsters (and their gold) keep coming back. As long as people hunt, gold will enter the economy. You can't stop that without preventing hunting, which will turn the server into a glorified chat room. The only other option is to find ways to drain it out. Dark Immolation wrote: The higher up in gp you have, the more it gets devalued, but in a way that you would still have more than the person who was devalued under you. Yes. I think it's only fair that people who had more end up with more. But a lot less than they started with. Dark Immolation wrote: To get back to gold sinks, all I can say is from personal experience, I've gladly spent a mil each month for my PC's house. We just have to find something that appeals to many different characters that they should -want- to spend gold that "goes away", but still gives them something. Yes. However, making a whole bunch of gold sinks so that there is something for everyone (ie. that every player will use) is a lot of work for the Devs. We have some, and more can be added, but this should not be the only means of draining gold because it is always voluntary and people don't have to use them. Yurell wrote: I still hold that the simplest gold sink is removing the cap on the respawn penalty. From there, DMs should be able to see how rapidly gold is leaving the economy. Not fast enough. I've respawned once in the last 6-12 months. Most people, once they get into their groove, don't die often, and if they do, they can make back what they lost and more before they have to respawn again. It gives death bite, encourages partying and not being stupid, and takes away a small amount of gold, but it's not the answer to the problem. It's simply a gold sink (see my comments on gold sinks above). Dramatic_Prince wrote: Should've stuck with the Arelith system. That's a viable option, yes. But having to suspend what you're doing every 40 min or whatever to eat some food or sit down and rest is more of an imposition and immersion-breaker than anything else. It's a chore. We don't want to make Amia into drudgery. Or if so, it should be occasional and/or voluntary. People who find the job system boring don't have to use it. With merchant buy caps, gold having weight & volume, and a banking system, selling items and taking your gold to the bank can be tedious (especially if you have a lot of it) but it's voluntary in the sense that how often it happens is up to you. _________________  ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Pony
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 13:29 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
|
|
IC consequences to ic actions.
Because of the amount of gold present on the amian island, the metal has become worthless. Merchants and adventurers clearly begin to trade in wares instead of using the currency, as the inflation continues to rise and rise. Foreign lands do not allow payment in amian currency anymore as it begins to destabalize thier own markets, making the economic situation on the amian isle even more dangerous. Other foreign sovereignties demand a high procent exchange into their own countries currency so that trade with amia becomes less lucrative (like Cormyr does by default).
Because of that Wiltun, Barak Runedar, Winya Ravena, Cordor and Kohlingen decide to take measures to ensure the island does not suffer a complete economic collapse. They decide to use the far more rare and useful metal called iron as a new currency called Shillings, and everyone must trade their current currency into the new one. For every 100.000 gold pieces you have, you gain 5.000 iron schillings, but anything over 5.000.000 will no longer be exchanged for. This means every person on the island (if ignoring property) has the maximum wealth of 250.000 schillings when the new currency goes in. (Could also be a new gold coin and the goverments horde the rest to stabalize everything)
(new currency)
Furthermore, due to the amount of magic items flying about and the fact they have become rather useless for the adventurning market, the merchants in the various cities now begin to pay a maximum amount of 5.000 schillings for them as they can not find many buyers.
(merchant cap)
As the adventurers have pillaged every corner of the isle for the old artifacts, they slowly have become more rare. This means the magical trinkets found on foes or in dungeons is no longer present in such quantities.
(modify lootdrops)
Money sinks begin to stabalize, meaning no more houses you need to pay 1.000.000 for one month, etc.
(modify money sinks)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lord-Hadeis
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 14:13 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Location: Netherlands, Schoonhoven
|
|
I'm not even going to read all the crap and silly childish arguements posted here. Sure there are one or two good ones, but I'm not digging through all that none sense for it.
Here are mine two cents.
I don't know if this can work but this would be best if you asked me. Want to fix the economy? Then look to a real one.
-Monsters that do not live in coin based sociaties shouldn't drop gold. (wolves, lizardmen, ghosts, zombies, ect, ect)
-Monsters that don't wear armour shouldn't drop it either and if they drop it it should reflect the kind of monster they are. Wolves don't wear full plates! The most a wolve should drop is meat and fur for those with the job or racial or class background to logically have the skill for it. A Dragon dropping a wonderforged weapon? Not logical, let adventurers collect dragon teeth or scales adn so and then use DC's and RP to craft something wicked of it. (ofcourse anything epic or with the posibility of producing something epic should be extremely hard to get. Its far far to easy right now). A gaint drops an armour? Great but its giant size so no equiping it, try and sell it at a shop though they'll likely just give you scrap metal value for it as giant size creatures aren't likely to drop by the codor shop. Might have more luck in the abyss with that though.
-A blacksmith couldn't care less if you tried to sell him a bow, or scrolls. Its not something his trade can use. Perhaps for a very low price because he'll have to do the bother to sell it on.
-Shops have limited store room. The amount of items to be sold there should be dependent on the amount of items previously bought. If the store didn't sell anything that reset, they aren't likely to buy anything.
-Down with the job system npc's that just buy and sell unlimited amount of stuff. Not realistic.
-Perhaps even make nearly all stores, except some starter noob shops, player ran like market stalls. Get everyone to work for the economy.
-Make it possible to pickpocket merchant npc's. If you got little skill and succeed a random low value item is given, high skill and success a random high value item from their current stocks. If you fail, he'll never trade with you ever again.
-and most importantly, logical pricings. Meat is often more expensive then a sword. Any idea how valuable a sword was in those times? A good long sword in medieval times could buy you a very nice farmstead. Sure this isn't a strickt medieval game. Just saying the prices should be far more balanced.
-if this results in you having tons of items you just can't sell. PERFECT stop dragging every useless little thing out of dungeons. Make your pick of what for your character is likely going to be the best sale and dump the rest.
Don't go screwing around what players have collected already, that's been done and it wouldn't do the server's player count any good. Want some money sinks? How many players claim to be resident of some town? A lot. Have them pay their taxes or driven out of town and away from their selling and buying locations if they don't. No more claiming to live somewhere just because you RP'ed it. Get some paper work to prove it and pay the coin.
I'd love the idea of weapon and armour upkeep. With at worst an armour or weapon not being destroyed but pointless to use untill repaired. So when your full plate is busted up, find a blacksmith. When you're leather armour is busted, find a leather worker. This would also very much encourage players moving about the map more.
And I really wish my ideas for the portal system would be aproved because it would be a very nice money sink. But they got rejected three times already.
P.S. the vote box is broken I think. I can just keep voting and voting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wilagins
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 14:20 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
|
|
I've seen everything possible to fix servers economies done on different servers. Those servers are mostly not even up anymore because no one plays them. The only effective thing I've seen to ballance economies was done on Taliv and it's not something that people would go for here... changing the mod an clearing the vault every so often. They used to make a totally different mod for people, different world and everything, and change the world every so often... the economy would start to get silly, and then poof, you're in a new world and everyone's lvl 3 again. (they did warn you in advance when the new mod was coming and have a huge end of the world event. Then they'd take that one down and put up the new one)
Amia's not gonna go for that mostly, and so the economy is going to be borked like every other online game that's been up for over a year. That's just the nature of the beast, the question is does it really matter? Does the fact that my paladin has half a million gold and the wizard standing next to her has thirty million really effect things that much? Does it make either character that much more effective because I hold on to the nice loot I get to trade or sell later to other PCs and the Mythals to improve gear in the future? Does it make the game less fun for you because other people have more buying power? And honestly, we're dealing with an over inflated economy according to the D&D pen an paper handbooks, even the commoners would have more money because the people their economy is based on don't have to save up for their services and items... We have almost used the pure capitalist system to the point where everyone has so much money it's become communist because everyone gets what they need and does what they can.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Xaviera
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 14:26 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
|
hadeismetirion wrote: P.S. the vote box is broken I think. I can just keep voting and voting. You can vote for up to three things, and you can change your vote, but you can't add more votes. _________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Xaviera
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 15:30 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
|
It would be nice to hear some more DM/Dev input. While Tormak is quite clear on his opinions (he is, after all, Tormak  ) I understand that he doesn't speak for the entire team. If there are other thoughts or ideas that other DM/Devs might be considering and that we could be expanding upon, that would be helpful. _________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dramatic_Prince
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 15:44 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
|
|
Question: Is it worth the development time doing a complete overhaul of the entire system 5 years into the game?
Or is the time better spent creating new content with the new hakpaks, making up new plots and ideas that everyone can enjoy?
_________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yossarin
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 16:03 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
|
Xaviera wrote: It would be nice to hear some more DM/Dev input. While Tormak is quite clear on his opinions (he is, after all, Tormak ) I understand that he doesn't speak for the entire team. If there are other thoughts or ideas that other DM/Devs might be considering and that we could be expanding upon, that would be helpful. I voted for no change at all because you only allowed for 3 options and if we're going to do anything to adjust a "problem" (the current debate being whether it is or is not a problem) it is going to take more than 3 of those options to do it right, in addition to things that haven't even been talked about here because everyone is an armchair Greenspan and thinks they can correctly identify both problem & solution. I'm not happy with the fact that I feel responsible for starting the trend that got so many people upset over it in the first place, and I'm not happy with the fact that Prescia is being made out as a villain for being an even better capitalist than I am when she is a contributing member of the community and doesn't deserve that, and I'm not happy at the suggestions in this thread that I see that are painfully obvious in providing benefit to individual players without a thought to the community while pitching it as the latter. In addition, you should stop discussing vault wipes. If we decide to do anything at all, we're certainly not going to do that, so by going on about it you're just creating a paranoia over nothing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lord-Hadeis
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 16:21 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Location: Netherlands, Schoonhoven
|
|
In the end though we'll find something to whine about. First people had to much money and epic gear was easily bought. Then we got flooded with perfect mythals, now its more an insult to offer one. So we switched to trading for the new epic gear. That will last a few months and we'll find something else.
If anything would be nice it would be putting the economy in players own hands. Few noob stores, scrap the rest. Let us sort it out amonst ourselves. Let the DM's just change the drop rate of loot or whatever once a while to keep it varied. In the end though, changes or no. It's not going to effect my gameplay in the least.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Xaviera
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 16:34 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
|
Yossarin wrote: I voted for no change at all because you only allowed for 3 options and if we're going to do anything to adjust a "problem" (the current debate being whether it is or is not a problem) it is going to take more than 3 of those options to do it right, in addition to things that haven't even been talked about here because everyone is an armchair Greenspan and thinks they can correctly identify both problem & solution.
I'm not happy with the fact that I feel responsible for starting the trend that got so many people upset over it in the first place, and I'm not happy with the fact that Prescia is being made out as a villain for being an even better capitalist than I am when she is a contributing member of the community and doesn't deserve that, and I'm not happy at the suggestions in this thread that I see that are painfully obvious in providing benefit to individual players without a thought to the community while pitching it as the latter.
In addition, you should stop discussing vault wipes. If we decide to do anything at all, we're certainly not going to do that, so by going on about it you're just creating a paranoia over nothing. I assume that most of your comments were addressed to the general 'you' rather than to me specifically, but I'll answer them personally anyway. I put 3 options to limit the choices. I realize that more than 3 changes may be necessary, but this was to get a feel for which particular options the community thought might be best. And people will get upset about any change - the point is to identify the problems and propose solutions that will benefit the community as a whole. I didn't include, for example, the idea of a banking system, which should probably go in there. I could change some of the poll options at this point and ask people to re-vote if you think that's worthwhile. I applaud Prescia's initiative (and yours, and dwagin's) for working within the system to create viable merchant characters. I think the system should continue to allow for such characters while still addressing the systemic concerns that plague everyone. My personal preference is for a substantial reduction in cash that still leaves those players who have worked hard to accumulate fortunes with more money than everyone else - just a lot less of it - and still leaves existing characters not too far above anyone who joins after the changes. I don't think that I have suggested anything that benefits me more than anyone else. In fact, since I don't hunt, my original tax/stipend system would have seen me eventually end up with ~90K (as a 30th level) down from my current 3 Mill or so. My alternate suggestion (since taxes weren't going over well) of gold weight and banking system and a devaluation of GP^(2/3)*10 would leave me with more (~200K) but still only 1/5 of someone with a 30 M purse. I personally have never supported a vault wipe (and I don't think most people do), nor do I support wiping out everyone's items or cash. _________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dwagin
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 16:41 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
|
Yossarin wrote: I'm not happy with the fact that I feel responsible for starting the trend that got so many people upset over it in the first place, Its a bit of You reap what you sow and Monkey See, Monkey Do. It should have been fixed and the bullet been bitten years ago. Now you have the festered drama that'll come from fixing it now. Don't be too hard on yourself though. ;-; Yossarin wrote: and I'm not happy with the fact that Prescia is being made out as a villain for being an even better capitalist than I am when she is a contributing member of the community and doesn't deserve that, TormakSaber wrote: As do you for choosing to become part of the problem instead of part of the solution, and yet doing so with absolutely no remorse, and in fact, bragging about it. Tormak's final response earlier in this thread pretty much nails it. Its the attitude not the accomplishments. I have no ire towards any people for successful boss bashing, D&D is about adventuring/finding treasures, But no one enjoys boasting, even if it is true, and particularly if that person is very successful.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
|
|
|
|
|
|
AlphaWaves
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 16:57 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: I'm pretty lost but I don't wanna be found.
|
|
I have no issue with millionaires, traders and the like. What gets me is the fact that gold is meaningless/unlimited. That's not what any country/town/region would base a currency on.
Killing a goblin can get you around 15-20 gp per kill.
20 gold pieces is a lot of gold!
What does this represent? I used to believe that it was from all the scrap you loot from the bodies. A goblin seems to be worth more than the average commoner. What does a goblin have that would sell on the market for 20 gp? What scraps are being taken? Their bones? Teeth? Loin cloth & morning-star? In such conditions, one'd be lucky to get a handful of silver.
In other words: The system dishes out limitless gold with ease.
If people are clever enough and dedicated enough to profit from other characters through RP then respect to them. That's not the issue. The issue is the fact that gold is seen and feels endless, much like the value most characters feel about their lives considering respawns and the assumption we can just come back if we "die".
_________________ "The householder's disdain for the vagabond hides a hint of jealousy."
~ A hin proverb
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dramatic_Prince
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 17:00 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
|
Dwagin wrote: But no one enjoys boasting, even if it is true, and particularly if that person is very successful. Doing as the romans do qualifies as boasting? *shrugs* If you insist.  Alphawaves wrote: 20 gold pieces is a lot of gold! If it was devalued and considered a copper piece, will it still sound as outrageous? Mind again, NWN is not PnP. _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dwagin
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 17:04 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
|
Dramatic_Prince wrote: Dwagin wrote: But no one enjoys boasting, even if it is true, and particularly if that person is very successful. Doing as the romans do qualifies as boasting? *shrugs* If you insist. Well. I don't see you running around in a leather skirt. I demand more men in leather skirts.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dramatic_Prince
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 17:07 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
|
Dwagin wrote: Well. I don't see you running around in a leather skirt. I demand more men in leather skirts. I'd play my gladiator more, but we ran out of gladiatorial events. _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
|
|
|
|
|
|
realpohlice
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 17:48 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Location: Giving a fuck when it ain't my turn to give a fuck.
|
Dramatic_Prince wrote: Question: Is it worth the development time doing a complete overhaul of the entire system 5 years into the game? That's an important consideration that I always keep in my mind. That's why I personally advocate the simpler & more direct drains (taxation/gold devaluation/upkeep). And also, on the simple adjustments/tweaks to the current system (less gold per kill & 1%-6% loot chance). The gold weight/volume, banking systems, & currency changes are way too complex for my tastes. It adds too much cruft and does essentially the same as the drains. And as a last nail to the gold weight/volume coffin for me is that it'll cause too much lag if it's going to take up spaces in our inventories. Yossarin wrote: [...] the current debate being whether it is or is not a problem [...] What debate? Isn't it a foregone conclusion that there's a problem? What else haven't we discussed here... Gambling - Might be a good sink sure, but does that mean increasing Amia's power level? I think it's safe to claim that people will only drop money there if there's a chance to better their already epic gear. Merchant Cap - Would hurt those who are leveling up to 30 but everybody's got to make sacrifices, right? If it's not too much work to implement, I think it's worth it. Uncap Death Penalty - Wouldn't affect the gamers (usually also the elites ones), but sure. (Majority of my characters haven't even seen the fugue yet.) I think it won't affect the economy but if it's not too much work to change... it can't hurt to try. Amia could try raising the death cap up, and if it's effective, uncap it. The ideas for drains, plugs, and sinks are there and they'll still be there. We've brainedstormed enough. We should be moving the discussion pass this. We should be debating about the goals and the policies. We could be finding out what's our idea of the ideal amount of gold per character. We could be fighting about how fast or how slow the drains will be. 
Last edited by realpohlice on Tue, Aug 17 2010, 18:31 PM, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rotkreuz
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 18:17 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Location: In America!
|
Quote: Level 30 is the cause of the majority of reasons as to why Amia has an over influx of gold. Nonsense. The cause of the gold problem is that monsters drop gold, despite the fact they don't interact with any economy. Neverwinter Nights has an economy built around only the Player interacting with the economy, much like Zelda or Elder Scrolls Oblivion. When you make a PW server that allows 65 players or more interact with the economy, gold is worthless, because you can go out in the woods and kill goblins all day long and receive an endless amount of gold. Quote: Restarting with a server wipe also removes those people who originally gained loads of money in earlier times on items that were overpowered or priced badly. It'll also cause them to leave because they spent 5 years doing all that work to just be nuked. Quote: Level 20 cap also removes issues of overpowered classes and feats. Wizards at level 20 have a nice assortment of spells that are not pushed to the max. It also balances out the spells better. You can't be serious, right? My main character is an epic smiter and it requires 25 charisma to use. If the server restarts, there's no point in building a smiter because I'll never get any of those feats. It's also pointless to try and make a dev critter, because it requires just as many feats and 25 strength. It'll make a lot of builds people had before completely worthless. No more epic dodgers, no Dev critters, no great smiters. With a level 20 cap, it'll put more pressure on making better builds because you'll have even less feats to work with. It's the worst idea ever. Also, you'll have to get rid of the ECL's for the subraces. Terrible, terrible idea. Quote: A full restart is the only decent answer to this issue because any other fix can be broken via some other way. So, if the level cap is set to 20, you don't think people will boss farm for the best possible gear for level 20? there will still be ridiculous auctions, but it'll be aimed at level 20's instead of 30's. Quote: Now saying that, I made the suggestion as it was an old joke, one akin to asking for haste potions, or dev crit be fixed for only WM's. With a level 20 cap, there will be no more Weapon master builds. Quote: I still stand by my statement that people drama queen over the idea of server wipes, or other drastic measures. This servers players do get a little attached to their ideals and beliefs on the server, and thus do create a bit more drama then is needed when dramatic suggestions are made. You're not a drama queen if you do a server wipe and do a 20 cap. You'll have to make a completely DIFFERENT build for whatever character you had at level 30. No more smiters, epic dodgers, dev critters. Some factions rely on level 30's (Clerics of Kelemvor use Hellballs and greater ruins to slay heretics.) So that means alot of factions would die because no one would have any of the fun spells they used to have.
_________________
Oh, whoops! Oh! I dropped my monster condom that I use for my magnum dong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mobile_Svensk
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 18:25 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
|
|
You also have to make an entirely different module.
And the entire server will cry for a rebuild.
I don't think it's even remotely on the map to Whipe gold out nor Down the level cap to 20
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dwagin
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 19:43 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
|
|
Wipe gold? Yes.
change level dynamic? No.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Xaviera
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 19:52 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
|
realpohlice wrote: [...] I personally advocate the simpler & more direct drains (taxation/gold devaluation/upkeep). And also, on the simple adjustments/tweaks to the current system (less gold per kill & 1%-6% loot chance).
The gold weight/volume, banking systems, & currency changes are way too complex for my tastes. It adds too much cruft and does essentially the same as the drains. And as a last nail to the gold weight/volume coffin for me is that it'll cause too much lag if it's going to take up spaces in our inventories. I concur. My goal with the tax/stipend proposal was to make it so the players didn't have to actually do anything (except work/hunt/beg/perform if they wanted more money). I had envisioned that the system would check every time you log in and, if it's a different calendar day since your last login, would present you with a notice similar to the following: You have recently spent 312,247 gp in upkeep, living expenses and the like
You have earned 576 gp from investments, gifts and wages
Your new total cash-on-hand is 2,810,802 gp You could make it marginally more interesting by using different adjectives: "on your dissolute lifestyle", "your hedonistic lifestyle", "your frugal lifestyle", etc. However, this system, while having the virtue of simplicity, transparency and convenience, was decried as 'unrealistic', among other things. So I offered an alternative that was, admittedly, more complex yet sought to satisfy the demand for a modicum of realism while still accomplishing the goal of draining cash. I don't really see a way to force people to bank cash without making it too awkward to carry around (which, by the way, could also make pickpocketing more profitable!) save by causing a steady drain on money that's in their inventory, but then you may as well institute a tax/stipend system such as I originally suggested! _________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dwagin
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 20:11 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
|
|
This system dictates how my pc's live and spend stuff. I dislike that.
Nuke the hoards and reduce inflow of gold to economy at cap. Change the way epic loot is acquired. Rather would see a construction from parts attained from bosses, opposed to.. loot pinata luck with gold costs associated with combining, and make it so where players do it. That way someone has a goal to work towards. Oh, well I need 20 beholder eyes, and 5 bat wings, a Fire giant king's head, demon dust, and a Windreaperscale, and a shard from Bidoc's spikey armor, and a phial of Darkness' Essence. Combine this with a prepared masterwork blade of whatever material for whatever bin which is purchased from a vendor, then have a PC put it together with proper skills/jobs, and an expensive one-time use kit of materials to do so. and viola epic weapon! Now you can decide if you want it random or very specific planable/buildable epic gear, and maybe fill in holes with mythals.
I dunno. Maybe i'm crazy. Just sounds way cooler/fun/workable for a group of people to go do stuff like that. And also require reagents from lower end mobs too, which up and commming/new guys/folks with future planning can trade in, to do these things too to share the wealth.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Xaviera
|
Posted: Tue, Aug 17 2010, 20:51 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
|
|
I don't disagree, but that falls under the heading of 'seriously major work for Devs'. It would require an overhaul of the job system, introduction of an upgraded crafting system and significant rebalancing of the module.
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
|
|
|
|
|
|
realpohlice
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 0:29 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Location: Giving a fuck when it ain't my turn to give a fuck.
|
Dwagin wrote: This system dictates how my pc's live and spend stuff. I dislike that. A rose by another name then... Call it the Amian Inflation System. Flat periodic cost - X percent - to everybody. Due to inflation, the gold we have now is less valuable tomorrow. So we might as well do a baseline reduction to everybody's gold and call that the inflation rate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dark Immolation
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 0:34 AM |
|
|
Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
|
|
I have to agree with Dwagin, a system like that that auto-assumes your char spends and does stuff concerning IC matters would be seen as heavy handed, and majorly disliked. My PC buys what my PC buys when I am playing them. Thread for clothes mending, mundane food, and solder for armor/weapon mending can all be bought for coppers. As in not even in the range of a handful of gold pieces. If my PC is spending more than 10K for "groceries", then I better see him crapping out gold ingots later that day.
The truth is, PCs that want to hoard will hoard. I believe our ways should make people not want to, at least not as much. The want of other things, goldsinks, outweighing the glamor of sitting on a pile of gold bars, to the point where IC PC's may even look at hoarding PC's like "Yeah, okay, we get it, you're rich, but where's your mansion/manservants/airship that all of these other people have?".
As well, I think I saw it somewhere earlier in the thread, decrease loot drops(from what they are now), but have them increase(to what they are now) with party member size. That, or just get rid of the auto-gold that comes from slaying monsters. From an IC perspective, I've always found that hard to reason. It's one thing to have goblins and wolves and ghosts carrying armor and random weapons, but I don't see the point in every mob creature carrying more gold than a commoner likely sees in a month.
So decrease loot drops, take away auto-drop-gold, as an addendum to my suggestions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
J.G.
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 2:13 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere, anywhere, everywhere, and nowhere.
|
Another possible inflation-stopper thing to implement at the same time the inflation is brought under control is making it so that you don't receive gold (or very little gold) when you kill something. Again this is AFTER the inflation is under control.
_________________
Gianan Wing - Wandering Priest of Akadi
Rente Galenson - Halruaan Wizard
|
|
|
|
|
|
Xaviera
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 2:36 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
|
Looks like the big drains are clogged. In that case, we're left with various small gold sinks until the Devs come up with and implement more. At least we can try to reduce gold influx by uncapping respawn penalties
eliminating gold drops from spawns
implementing merchant buy caps and reduce the existing gold by devaluing everybody's cash holdings This should give us at least some time before the situation reoccurs. The suggestion was also made to change loot drops to 1% per party member. This means one needs to kill on average ~15-17 mobs to get a drop. Is this too stringent? What's the average value of a level 1 lootbin item? A few hundred coins? And if a merchant has a 10% buy cap, that means 15 spawns will net you perhaps 100 gp. Obviously the exact numbers will need to be tinkered with. _________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dramatic_Prince
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 2:49 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
|
Rotkreuz wrote: The cause of the gold problem is that monsters drop gold, despite the fact they don't interact with any economy. J.G. wrote: Another possible inflation-stopper thing to implement at the same time the inflation is brought under control is making it so that you don't receive gold (or very little gold) when you kill something. They drop gold, yes. Has anyone even counted how much gold a goblin drops and how much a beholder drops? Go take a look then tell me how many goblins you need to kill to buy one raise scroll. _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dwagin
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 3:17 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
|
|
Depending on appraise, but roughly, 100.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
|
|
|
|
|
|
maglorine
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 3:32 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
|
|
The point of my suggestion a few pages back is that it doesn't have to be goblins. On many pc's you can kill anything 5-10 levels below you in the same time it takes to kill goblins which are 25-29 levels below you. They drop much more gold than goblins and decent loot too. You can pile up gold endlessly and in rapid fire fashion. My ranger can solo thru any favored area a few levels below him and smoke thru spawns at a fevered pace. It isn't because of anything special I did. Anyone can do it. Every kill is gold, the same gold I got when it was actually a challenge 10 levels ago except I was in a party then and splitting loot, now I'm alone and keeping it all and I'm still going just as fast, if not faster than I did then. The xp dried up 5 levels ago but I'm still cashing in on the base gp award and the same loot percentage. Maybe I'm not even farming this zone but I need to move thru it to get wherever I'm going, but that doesn't stop the spawns from appearing along with their sacks filled with gold which will soon be added to my own.
This particular merry go round of gold, gold, and more gold can be stopped. Even something as mild as cutting the gp drop and loot drop like you cut the xp drop would have an enormous effect. Get 1xp, then you get 1 gp and a 1% chance of loot. Not 1xp, 100gp, and a 5% chance at loot. This is a real cut in gold/hour, dropping the rewards for farming areas below your CR.
On the flip side, If it's near your CR then you are at more risk of dying and that's where the removed respawn gold cap comes in. Earning gold at a decent rate becomes dangerous. When it's dangerous you will party up and share the rewards or risk dying and losing gold. Or you will go slower and use more consumables. Or both. Again this slows the rapid pace of gold accumulation.
_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
|
|
|
|
|
|
Selmak
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 3:34 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
|
|
Having played Fable II recently (like last week) it was interesting to note that the actions you take as a player actually affects the local economies, so that buying up lots of cheap properties and then upgrading the interiors would give you both a great return in terms of rent, but also improve the overall valuation of all local properties, making you even more money. The downside is that it then costs much more to acquire the rest of the properties.
What you could do with Amia's economy is have NPC merchants close (or open) their stores or change their prices and items as things get worse (or better) as a result of how much gold is spent. Let's say that the less gold that is spent, the less NPC merchants are able to procure high-end potions and other consumables and so if you're all really poor or cheapskates, the city will offer only cheap stuff. Such changes won't happen overnight, but manifest gradually over time giving players the opportunity to step in and help the economy by buying stuff.
Making gold sinks cheaper as a result of a slow economy does mean that less gold leaves the economy, but it does make it more likely that they are used. Rental properties could offer great potential for bargain hunters, for example.
Anyway, not much of an actual suggestion, more food for thought.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dramatic_Prince
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 3:59 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
|
Dwagin wrote: Depending on appraise, but roughly, 100. And within that hundred slain, how many loot drops? How much is that loot worth, if sold? _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 4:03 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
It's a trickle, but t does eventually add up. It tends to be more than enough to cover oyour consumables expenditure.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rotkreuz
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 4:06 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Location: In America!
|
Dramatic_Prince wrote: Rotkreuz wrote: The cause of the gold problem is that monsters drop gold, despite the fact they don't interact with any economy. J.G. wrote: Another possible inflation-stopper thing to implement at the same time the inflation is brought under control is making it so that you don't receive gold (or very little gold) when you kill something. They drop gold, yes. Has anyone even counted how much gold a goblin drops and how much a beholder drops? Go take a look then tell me how many goblins you need to kill to buy one raise scroll. You've missed the point entirely, dramatic Prince. Yes, monsters drop very little gold, but it's still an endless supply. You could sit around all day and kill monsters outside cordor and earn money, but that will cause very slow, gradual inflation becuase it's an unlimited supply of gold continually pouring into the economy. Like an example I gave before. What if you went outside and picked up a rock and found five dollars? Then you pick up a few more rocks and find more money? Do you know what would happen to our economy if people kept finding money just magically appearing under rocks, bushes and dead animals? It would collapse.
_________________
Oh, whoops! Oh! I dropped my monster condom that I use for my magnum dong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dramatic_Prince
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 4:30 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
|
Rotkreuz wrote: You've missed the point entirely, dramatic Prince. And my point, friend, is that the value loot drops far outstrip the trickle of gold coming in. Even more so with the new additions fetching prices far higher than the old loot. Oh I found a duelists parrying dagger! I can sell it to the shop for 150,000. That saves me the trouble of killing 20,000 goblins to get that money. I'm my opinion, adding the new loots is like adding a running gold faucet. Only a handful like the overpowered Triad Shield gets used. The majority probably goes back to the system. _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
|
|
|
|
|
|
realpohlice
|
Posted: Wed, Aug 18 2010, 4:35 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Location: Giving a fuck when it ain't my turn to give a fuck.
|
Rotkreuz wrote: Yes, monsters drop very little gold, but it's still an endless supply. Endless supply isn't exactly the problem. Accumulation of GP is still limited by the time and effort it takes to extract it. You can't just earn 5 million GP instantly. That's something we can work with. Rotkreuz wrote: Like an example I gave before. What if you went outside and picked up a rock and found five dollars? Then you pick up a few more rocks and find more money? Do you know what would happen to our economy if people kept finding money just magically appearing under rocks, bushes and dead animals? It would collapse. It's somewhat similar to how money can just be printed in today's world. Or before fiat money, how we could just keep mining precious metals out of the earth. It was practically an endless supply for those times. Even with more efficient mining machines and technology, and decades of continued mining, we still haven't even depleted all the gold under our giant rock! It's all about control and management.
|
|
|
|
|
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 151 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Login
