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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 1:36 AM 

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Ranting and punishing a character because they used "thou" instead of "you" is asinine and only serves to inflate your own e-penis and is as bad as a Drow priestess punishing a player because she was called "high priestess" instead of "Arch priestess". Both parties in the conversation know exactly what was meant. You're punishing them due to your 'superior' grasp of an archaic form of English and doing it for no other reason than you 'know the origins'.

I think pretty much everyone understands the fact that "thou" and etc are used to nfer an archaic form of speaking, perhaps an older dialect of the language, but you once again dive into the nonimportant semantics and run circles around people and call it an argument. There's no point to it and only serves to piss people off. Am I seriously arguing with someone because they're using a currently nonexistent second person informal tense of the English language? Yes, because they use this incredibly obscure (to the general populace) fact to insult and punish characters ICly when they're trying to do little more than add flavor to their roleplay and express in words and text what you do not see and hear.

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Yurell
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 1:42 AM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
"high priestess" instead of "Arch priestess".


Try calling a general 'colonel'. So long as everyone is given a second chance I fail to see anything wrong with it. Nevertheless, this is the lore discussion thread, and if you wish to continue this non lore-specific discussion, I would be quite happy to do so in PMs.

Edit: And before you point out that you'd likely only get a telling off, that's what most of my 'punishments' are.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 1:51 AM 

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Yurell wrote:
TormakSaber wrote:
"high priestess" instead of "Arch priestess".


Try calling a general 'colonel'. So long as everyone is given a second chance I fail to see anything wrong with it. Nevertheless, this is the lore discussion thread, and if you wish to continue this non lore-specific discussion, I would be quite happy to do so in PMs.

Edit: And before you point out that you'd likely only get a telling off, that's what most of my 'punishments' are.

Quote:
Both parties in the conversation know exactly what was meant.

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Logicality
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 1:54 AM 

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Using the linguistic shortcomings of players as in-character ammunition for conversations or otherwise is metagaming.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 1:57 AM 

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Hell no.

Some people 'Actually' have that deep RP; And just because some may not comprehend or keep up, Doesn't mean it should end.

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Last edited by Mobile_Svensk on Wed, Aug 25 2010, 2:00 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
AlphaWaves
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 1:59 AM 

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Yurell wrote:
Pro-tip: Don't use a word if you don't know what it means.


Sorry but you're being a hypocrite here, Yurell. I will save you the embarrassment by not quoting you, but your argument really should end now.

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Yurell
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 2:00 AM 

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AlphaWaves wrote:
Yurell wrote:
Pro-tip: Don't use a word if you don't know what it means.


Sorry but you're being a hypocrite here, Yurell. I will save you the embarrassment by not quoting you, but your argument really should end now.


Oh? If I've used a word incorrectly you should point it out so that I can correct it.

Edit: Just in case I'm not being clear, I'm not talking about misusing modern English words, everyone does it, from native English speakers to LOTE, my point is the deliberate use of an obscure word, or one no longer in use, and treating it like you see so many people using umlauts for decörätiön.

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Last edited by Yurell on Wed, Aug 25 2010, 2:36 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 2:04 AM 

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*Attempts to steer the soon-to-be-Flaming-With-a-Honest-Question*
The Shadow Plane.

is it easier for Demons/Devils to travel to the Shadowplane, And then to the material plane?
Or does it just make the trip dubble the lenght, since they have to jump twice?

CAN Demons even enter the shadowplane?

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 3:00 AM 

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Whatever compelled you to think that the shadow plane has anything to do whatsoever with devils or demons? It's just a plane like any other, there is no real "distance". It's not easier or harder; if you can plane shift to the Shadow, you can plane shift to the prime or to any other plane as you please.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 10:05 AM 

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Well, The shadowplane is a reflection of the Prime.

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Silvarus
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 10:21 AM 

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It is not a reflection, it is a plane on its own right.

"The Plane of Shadow was a demiplane in an earlier edition of the game, but finally became a full-fledged transitive plane in the 3rd edition cosmology. It is, as one would expect, an empty plane of darkness, where shadows are cast without any source of light. The Shadow Plane connects to other planes not only through portals but also through darkness; this is especially true on the Material Plane, where a monster or mage might use the shadows as a form of transportation. It has also been speculated that the Shadow Plane connects many different cosmologies, thus making it possible for a planeswalker to travel between them. The d20 Modern campaign's Shadow Chasers, Urban Arcana, and the d20 Past campaign Shadow Stalkers, are based on this premise. In the Dungeons & Dragons Third Edition this is an optional rule."

It makes travelling easier if you travel trough existing portals, but not if you plane shift there and forwards. Plane Shift and Gate bypass the other complexities of planar travel.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 10:28 AM 

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Thank you very much for that, Silvarus! :D

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Wyjyn
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 11:38 AM 

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I must admit I am partially on Yurell's side. I kind of think it would be funny as a drow male to do something really good, like a great success for your mistress, and then make such a minor mistake and be punished for it. Its that sort of stuff which makes drow society fun, I say punish away! However, I would keep in mind that your high wisdom priestess probably knows what you do: that it is an honest mistake, so react accordingly. Males are less intelligent than you, and you know it, so them proving their lackings is of no great account!

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Yurell
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 11:44 AM 

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Wyjyn wrote:
I must admit I am partially on Yurell's side. I kind of think it would be funny as a drow male to do something really good, like a great success for your mistress, and then make such a minor mistake and be punished for it. Its that sort of stuff which makes drow society fun, I say punish away! However, I would keep in mind that your high wisdom priestess probably knows what you do: that it is an honest mistake, so react accordingly. Males are less intelligent than you, and you know it, so them proving their lackings is of no great account!


Exactly what I was trying to say

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Pony
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 14:24 PM 



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I need as much info on Red Knight and Tempus as possible. Every last thing you can link that is not already 4th edition and hence sucks arse. Preferably soon due to a slight self-set deadline that I want to get a few things in the toolset done before.

Thanks!


 
      
Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 14:30 PM 

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KrautBoy wrote:
I need as much info on Red Knight and Tempus as possible. Every last thing you can link that is not already 4th edition and hence sucks arse. Preferably soon due to a slight self-set deadline that I want to get a few things in the toolset done before.

Thanks!


*Drools over Gabe, Knowing what he is up to, But wants to seeeeeee!*

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 17:21 PM 

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KrautBoy wrote:
I need as much info on Red Knight and Tempus as possible. Every last thing you can link that is not already 4th edition and hence sucks arse. Preferably soon due to a slight self-set deadline that I want to get a few things in the toolset done before.

Thanks!


That's vague. I could simply quote you the entirety of Faiths and Avatars and Faiths and Pantheons, but what do you actually need to know about them? They are both obviously gods of war, one CN, one LN. Tempus is a Greater Deity and Red Knight only his lieutenant/Lesser Deity servitor. Tempus is a deity of glorious and honorable war, not slaughter or murder. Red Knight is a deity of strategy and tactics, but not necessarily craven or cowardly acts. A well played ambush that allows 50 men to defeat 500 will win her heart; a knife in the dark and a murder will not. Temples to both are common and their worship is common almost everywhere. After all, combat is common, war is a fact of life, and you always want the gods on your side. Both Tempus and the Red Knight's favored color is red, and worshipers and devouts of Tempus will never, ever cover their faces.

Quote:
Greater God
Alias: Lord of Battles, Foehammer
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Portfolio: War, battle, warriors
Domains: Chaos, Protection, Strength, War
Cleric's Alignment: CG, CN, CE
Worshippers: Barbarians, fighters, half-orcs, rangers, and warriors
Symbol: A blazing silver sword on a blood-red shield
Favored Weapon: "Battle Prowess" (battleaxe)
Home plane: Warrior's Rest


Tempus (tem-pus) is random in his support, but his chaotic nature ends up favoring all equally in time. The god of war is liable to back one army one day and another one the next. Soldiers of all alignments pray to him for help in coming battles. Might and honorable in battle, he answers to his own warrior’s code and pursues no long-lasting alliances. He has never been known to speak. He uses the spirits of fallen warriors as intermediaries.

The church of Tempus welcomes worshipers of all alignments (though its clerics abide by the normal rules), and its temples are more like walled military compounds. Tempus’s clerics are charged to keep warfare a thing of rules and respected reputation, minimizing uncontrolled bloodshed and working to end pointless extended feuding. They train themselves and others in battle readiness in order to protect civilization from monsters, and they punish those who fight dishonorably or with cowardice. Collecting and venerating the weapons of famous and respect warriors is a common practice in Tempus’s church. Clerics are expected to spill a few drops of blood (preferably their own or a worthy foe’s) every tenday.

Tempus’s clerics pray for spells just before high sun. Most of his clerics tend to be battle-minded male humans, although others are welcome. Eves and anniversaries of great battles important to a local temple are holidays. The feast of the Moon is the annual day to honor the dead. Each temple holds a Feast of Heroes at high sun and a Song of the Fallen at sunset, and most also have a Song of the Sword ceremony after dark for lay folk. Tempus’s clerics usually multiclass as fighters.


History/Relationships:
Tempus arose from the first battle between Selune and Shar. He sponsored the divinity of the Red Knight and is casually friendly with Nobanion, Gond, Valkur, and Uthgar. While he is the opposite of peaceful Eldath, he punishes those among his faithful who abuse her followers or sites, perhaps because he thinks that war has little meaning without peace to contrast it. His only foe is the upstart Garagos.


Dogma:
Tempus does not win battles, he helps the deserving warrior win battles. War is fair in that it oppresses and aids all equally. It should not be feared, but seen as a natural force, a storm brought by civilization. Arm all for whom battle is needful, even foes. Retreat from hopeless fights but never avoid battle. Slay one foe decisively and halt a battle quickly rather than rely upon a slow attrition. Remember the dead that fell before you. Disparage no foe and respect all, for valor blazes in all regardless of age, sex, or race. Tempus looks with favor upon those that acquit themselves honorably in battle without resorting to craven tricks. Consider the consequences of the violence of war, and do not wage war recklessly. The smooth-tongued that avoid all strike wreak more harm than the most energetic tyrant.

((This information was taken from the Dungeons & Dragons Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Manual))


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Church


Avatar/Manifestations:
Tempus appears as a 12-foot-tall human wearing plate armour that has been battered and bloodied by combat. Though his face hidden by a massive war helm, his hooded gaze is a palpable force. He bears a great battleaxe (or a black greatsword) notched and stained from much use in his gauntleted hands. His legs and arms are bare and crisscrossed by bleeding wounds, but this does not affect him as he rides into battle. He sometimes appears afoot but more often rides either a white mare (Veiros) or a black stallion (Deiros), or occasionally both, standing with one foot on each.


The Church of Tempus:
Clerics of the war deity are charged to keep warfare a thing of rules, respected reputation, and professional behaviour, minimizing uncontrolled bloodshed and working to eradicate feuding that extends beyond a single dispute or set of foes. At the same time, training and readiness for battle must be promoted if civilized human holdings are to survive in Faerun in the face of monster raids and orc hordes--and the power of Tempus to aid those he favours in battle must also be promoted. Warriors who employ poison or taint wells, sow fields with salt, kill noncombatants, indulge in torture or the wanton slaughter of innocent folk when they are not at war, or commit similar sins against fair battle are to be denied the favour of the deity, their crimes are to be publicized far and wide, and they are to be made to atone for their deeds or perish.

War clerics must preserve the names of the honoured battle-fallen, both on gravestones and other such memorials, in their prayers to Tempus, and in an annual chant at the March of the Dead, wherein clerics of the war deity go through the streets to call all folk, worshippers and nonbelievers alike, to the local Feast of the Moon hosted by their temple. Clerics are also charged to collect and venerate the weapons and armour of famous and respected warriors, even if these are broken or have deteriorated, for they retain something of the battlelust and energy associated with the deeds they participated in.


Day-to-Day Activities:



Holy Days/Important Ceremonies:



Priestly Vestments:
The formal robes of a cleric of Tempus always sport trim the crimson hue of fresh blood, but vary in overall colour from place to place and rank to rank, with darker-coloured robes worn by those of lower ranks. Most war clerics wear ceremonial garments of brown or purple. Red or amber is worn by senior clergy, and yellow or white by those of the most exalted rank. Aside from their trusty battleaxes, many senior clerics of Tempus also favour spiked gauntlets as a mark of their station.


Adventuring Garb:
When not in battered armour, clerics of Tempus often wear helms or steal skullcaps, though they are careful never to cover their faces, for such close emulation of Tempus is thought to be an affront to the Lord of Battles. Some of the fanatical wandering clerics never remove all their armour at any time, but in the temples of the big cities clergy are rarely seen in armour except at ceremonies held before armies march or a siege begins.

Orders

Order of the Broken Blade
The Order of the Broken Blade honors those warriors and clergy who are injured in Tempus's service and can no longer fight in the front lines.
Order of the Steel Fang

The Order of the Steel Fang
Is an elite fighting order within the church of Tempus, whose members are often assigned to the most dangerous duties and led by battle-hardened clergymen. Many mercenary companies and knightly fighting orders of crusaders also avail themselves of a connection to the church. One badge of the god seen among his affiliated mercenaries is a rusty brown dagger, shown diagonally with its point to the upper right, dripping four drops of blood.




Additional information:

Church Acolyte
Thousands of young adults join good churches all over Faerûn every day with the hope of becoming clerics. Some find it's too hard or not to their liking, and leave after absorbing only some elements of the church's teachings. Some find other roles in the church more exciting or rewarding. More than just a choice of patron deity, these devotees of a faith identify more strongly with their church than they do with their home country.


Knight Squire
Dozens of good knighthoods keep watch over parts of Faerûn. Many parents see knighthood as a way for their child to gain status, either as a way to escape a lifetime of farm work or as a way to prove service to the nobility. Though few of these children grow up to be knights, they gain rare opportunities, spending time with majestic horses and heroes.




Crusaders
Crusaders are the implacable, spiritual lords of war, similar to paladins in their zeal but without the alignment restrictions that limit those holy warriors. Crusaders only have access to three disciplines, but these three -- Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, and White Raven -- provide them with equal parts conviction, durability, and leadership ability. A number of crusader orders can be found among the faiths of the Realms, including those of Anhur, Tempus & Red Knight, and Torm.

Tempus embodies sheer martial revelry mitigated by a love of strategy. Red Knight is the lady of strategy, a cool and collected patron of tacticians, planners, and battle coordinators. Over 30 members of all three blade magic classes worship and study in the combined Tempus & Red Knight sword temple in the city Tegal's Mark in Tasseldale, known as the Red Steel Gambit. By far the greatest number of disciples is from the crusader class. The master of the temple -- Thomwaith De'Krestin (N male Chondathan crusader 17 [Tempus & Red Knight]) is blessed by both the Lady of Strategy and the Lord of Battles.


Swordsages
While not all martial monasteries embrace the use of weapons, it is not uncommon to find swordsages in many of the same places where monks are found. With their contemplative, almost scholarly approach to fighting, swordsages have much in common with monks of both a scholarly and an academic bent. Swordsages can be found anywhere that monks and other practitioners of the sublime way train.


Warblades
In the Realms, warblades face prejudices that are not experienced as much by swordsages and crusaders. Whereas swordsages are frequently associated with monasteries and crusaders are tied to religious orders, warblades share less of a link with other classes. Monks and clerics tend to be more tolerant of blade magic practitioners in their orders, feeling that these members are simply expressing the order or faith's philosophy in their own unique way. Warblades share a great deal in common with fighters, but their flashy powers often create distance between them and more conventional warriors. Fortunately, there are a few bastions of blade magic that cater to the skill and tactics of warblades in the Realms.


The only major foe Tempus has among the deities is Garagos. Anhur of the Mulhorandi doesn't register as a blip on his radar as something to hate, to my knowledge.

Quote:
Red Knight

Image


Demigod
Alias: Lady of Strategy, Grandmaster of the Lanceboard
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Portfolio: Strategy, planning, tactics
Domains: Law, Nobility, Planning, War
Cleric Alignments: LE, LG, LN
Worshipers: Fighters, gamesters, monks, strategists, tacticians
Symbol: Red knight chess piece with stars for eyes
Favored Weapon: "Checkmate" (longsword)
Home Plane: Warrior’s Rest


Calm and logical in demeanor, the Red Knight displays a great wealth of compassion, though she is unafraid to send her worshipers to their deaths when necessary to secure the object of a plan. She rarely raises her voice and is said to love a good joke and have a throaty laugh. She dislikes flighty behavior, and looks unfavorably upon those who switch alliances often or capriciously.

The church of the Red Knight, known as the Red Fellowship, is an offshoot of a monastic order within the hierarchy of the church of Tempus that concentrated on planning and strategy and has only emerged from the shadow of the temple of Tempus since the Time of Troubles. Members of the Red Fellowship serve in armies throughout Faerun, often as high-ranking commanders of elite squads. Others are well-respected instructors in war colleges. A few are quartermasters skilled at obtaining and managing supplies or establishing and maintaining supply lines over hostile territory. Quite a few clerics of the Red Knight have authored tomes on military strategy. When not on duty, clerics of the Red Fellowship are known for their love of gaming. Although they avoid games of chance that require the smile of Lady Luck more than the brilliance of the Red Knight, clerics of the faith strive to constantly improve their skills in abstract games of all sorts to further challenge their development of parallel lines of thought and new stratagems and to sharpen their ability to read an opponent's intentions

Clerics of the Red Knight pray for their spells at night before going to sleep, preparing for the day to come. In addition to observing the holy days and important ceremonies of the church of Tempus, the clergy of the Red Knight honor two important holy days. The Retreat is an annual even held every Midwinter’s Day. During this solemn ceremony, the clergy of the Red Knight assemble for a day-long retrospective on the previous years campaigns. Strategies are discussed, battles are analyzed, and the accumulated lore is integrated into the church’s teachings. The Queen's Gambit is celebrated on the first day of Tarsakh. During this festival, the clergy of the Red Knights unwind with a day of feasting and gamesmanship. Day-long tournaments of chess (also known as Lanceboard) are held, with the tournament victors receiving recognition, titles of merit, promotions, and, sometimes, a precious gift from the temple armory. Many clerics multiclass as divine champions, fighters, of monks.


History/Relationships:
The Red Knight was elevated to divine status by Temps as a natural counterbalance to Garagos. She loyally serves her patron, whom she regards as a father figure, and seeks to undermine both Garagos and Cyric. She works closely to Torm, who holds a similar disposition, and sees Valkur the Might as her best ally in naval combat, even if he is somewhat unreliable. The Red Knight keeps her true name secret from all but the Lord of Battles, as she realizes that if any being, mortal or divine, were to gain any measure of control over her, they would be privy to all the plots and stratagems of rulers throughout Faerun and the deities throughout the planes.


Dogma:
War is won by those with the best planning, strategy, and tactics, regardless of the apparent odds. Any fool can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with fortune's aid. Only a master strategist can ensure lasting victory. War is a series of battles. Losing a battle does not necessarily indicate the war is lost. Seek out your opponent's weaknesses and recognize your own; avoid an opponent’s strengths and play to your own. Only by focusing one's own strengths on the opponent's vulnerabilities can triumph be ensured. In times of war prepare for peace; in times of peace prepare for war. Seek out your enemy's enemies as allies, and be prepared to compromise. Life is an endless series of skirmishes with occasional outbreaks of war. Be ready---and have a contingency plan.

((This information was taken from the Dungeons & Dragons Forgotten Realms Campaign Accessory: Faiths and Pantheons Manual))

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[size=18pt]Church[/size]


Additional Dogma:
War is won by those with the best planning, strategy, and tactics, regardless of the apparent odds. Any fool can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with fortune's aid. Only a master strategists can ensure victory and that is will last.

War is a series of battles. Losing a battle does not necessarily indicate the war is lost. Seek out your opponent's weaknesses and recognize your own; avoid an opponent's strengths and play to your own. Only by focusing one's own strengths on one's opponent's vulnerabilities can triumph be ensured. In times of war prepare for peace; in times of peace prepare for war. Seek out your enemy's enemies as allies, and be prepared to compromise. Life is an endless series of skirmishes with occasional outbreaks of war. Be ready—and have a contingency plan.


Avatar/Manifestations:
The Red Knight commonly manifests as a chess board on which various pieces are positioned. By discerning the most appropriate next move on the board, worshipers blessed with such a vision can intuit an appropriate strategy for the future for their current situation.


The Church of the Red Knight:
Only in recent memory has the Red Knight emerged as a demipower in her own right, distinct from Tempus. Most folks still view her as a follower or aspect of Tempus, similar to Veiros and Deiros, the Foehammer's twin steeds. Although the Red Knight serves all sides in battle, villagers and city dwellers perceive her as an ally of civilization who enables small numbers of brave defenders to triumph through superior intelligence and foresight against ravening hordes of rapidly breeding humanoids.

The Red Knight has but a few shrines dedicated to her name, and all but one are found within temples of Tempus. Chapels of the Red Knight are dominated by images of chess pieces and the floor is inlaid with a chess board (also known as a lanceboard) of black and white or red and white marble. Typically they are guarded by numerous stone guardians of blood red and bone white hue, carved in the shape of various chess pieces.

The clergy of the Red Knight, known as the Red Fellowship, is an offshoot of a monastic order within the hierarchy of the church of Tempus that concentrated on planning and strategy. Evenly divided into clerics, crusaders, monks, and specialty priests (known as holy strategists), this relatively small priesthood has only organized into a distinct faith since the Time of Troubles and has been most active since after the end of the great crusade against the Tuigan Horde in the Year of the Turret (1361 DR). Regardless of class, priests of the Red Knight are regimented in a strict hierarchy with corresponding titles. In ascending order, these titles include: Page, Squire, Knight, Knight Quartermaster, Knight Commander, Knight Captain, Lord Knight, Lord Knight Commandant, and Lord Knight of the Red Standard. Higher-ranking priests precede their titles with their relative rank within the clergy (for example, the eighth-highest ranking priest of the Red Knight's faith is known as the Eighth Lord Knight of the Red Standard), although this practice may be abandoned as the clergy grows in size.


Day-to-Day Activities:
Members of the Red Fellowship serve in armies throughout the Realms. Many are high-ranking commanders, often of elite squads. Others are well-respected instructors in war colleges in kingdoms throughout the Realms. A few are quartermasters skilled at obtaining and maintaining supply lines over hostile territory. Quite a few priests of the Red Knight have authored tomes on military strategy.

When not on duty, priest of the Red Fellowship are known for their love of gaming. Although they avoid games of chance that require the smile of Lady Luck more than the brilliance of the Red Knight, priests of the faith strive to constantly improve their skills in abstract games of all sorts to further challenge their development of parallel lines of thought and new stratagems and to sharpen their ability to read an opponent's intenions.


Holy Days/Important Ceremonies:
In addition to observing the holy days and important ceremonies of the church of Tempus, the clergy of the Red Knight observe two important holy days themselves. The Retreat is an annual event held every Midwinter's day. During this solemn cermony, the clergy of the Red Knight assemble for a day-long retrospective on the previous year's campaigns. Strategies are discussed, battles are analyzed, and the accumulated lore is intergrated into the church's teachings. The Queen's Gambit is celebrated on the first day of Taraskh. During this festival, the clergy of the Red Knight unwind with a day of feasting and gamesmanship. Day-long tournments of chess and go (a game imported from Kara-Tur) are held, with tournments victors receiving recognition, titles of merit, promotions, and sometimes a precious gift from the temple armory.


Priestly Vestments:
Clergy of the Red Knight wear blood-hued suits of plate armor or plate mail for ceremonial functions over which is worn a white tabard embroidered with the Red Knight's symbol. They are not forbidden to cover their faces with their helms like Tempuran clergy are, however, and so they often sport full helms when visibility is not a concern and they wish to convey a grand impression. When not armored, their clerical robes are red, although the shading varies slightly from darker to lighter with increasing rank. They wear the symbol of the Red Knight carved from a red-hued gemstone on a chain around their necks.


Adventuring Garb:
Adventuring garb for priests of the Red Knight is the best armor they can obtain. Although their armor can be battleworn, most priests strive to keep it polished and unmarred, as befits a commander seeking to inspire both his followers and the bards. All clergy of the Red Knight have a battle standard, paint their heraldic symbols (in entitled to one) on their shields, or display the symbol of the Lady of Strategy on banner or shield to form a rallying point for troops when they are going into organized battle. Covering or concealing such a standard generates no disapproval from the church however, if a strategem should require it.

Orders


The Order of the Red Falcon
A group of fighters and paladins dedicated to the service of the Red Knight. From their base just north of Baldur's Gate, the Citadel of Strategic Militancy, they teach tactics, strategy and military history to aspiring officers who seek their teachings.

During the Time of Troubles Lady Bloodhawk became the avatar for the Red Knight and led an adventuring band to Tethyr and routed an invading horde of monsters from the region. After this she and her companions gained much fame and gratitude from the Tethyrian people.

The Order of the Lanceboard
A religious order devoted to the Red Knight. Though its membership is fairly large, the members are scattered throughout Faerûn. It has gained a great deal of political power in the years following the Spellplague due to the fact that many of its members serve as high-ranking military officers in armies and navies of various nation-states. Headquartered in the town of Nehr'bak, located northeast of Waterdeep, it closely follows the traditions of the Red Fellowship, but with some differences.


History
Before the Time of Troubles the Red Knight was merely a little-known aspect of Tempus, but she was worshiped by Falcar Greycastle, a captain in the Waterdhavian army. Following his retirement, many of his former subordinates came to him for lessons in battlefield tactics. He instilled in them that they had a responsibility for righting wrongs. Eventually he came to realize that Faerûn was full of un-righted wrongs, and though there were many evildoers, there were fewer do-gooders. He gathered several of his lieutenants and, on 1 Tarsakh, 1346 DR, formed a mercenary party called the Order of the Lanceboard. (Coincidentally, this date later became the Red Knightist religious holiday called Queen's Gambit.)

The Order quickly ballooned into a full-fledged monastic and knightly order. Greycastle bought a crumbling stone abbey in the small town of Nehr'bak and had it refurbished into a training ground and battle-ready fortress. Nehr'bak's economy received a major boost from this, and its population grew to that of a small city.

Following the Time of Troubles and the elevation of the Red Knight to a full-fledged goddess, the Order expanded its operations from the Sword Coast to major nations all across Faerûn. It now maintains garrisons in Port Llast, Thay , Cormyr, Calimshan, Chessenta, and Damara, all connected by a portal network.


Goals, Methods, and Views
"Lancers," as the members of the Order are colloquially known, use their tactical knowledge and combat skills solely for good. This has two main interpretations: members who are good-aligned do good for its own sake, and members who are neutral on the good-evil axis do good partly in the hopes of future benefit for themselves. Neutral clerics turn rather than rebuke undead; non-free-willed undead are viewed as unfortunate abominations, but free-willed undead are judged by their actions. (In most cases, this amounts to the same thing, of course.)

A member of the Order of the Lanceboard is expected to honor the Red Knight, keep the peace, and fight for the greater good of Faerûn. This means that the Order, while still largely of lawful good alignment, is more chaotic than, say, the church of Torm: in one noteworthy instance, Kalir Patten made a minor deal with an archdevil to gather intelligence for a mission, something that would be anathema to most paladins.

Relations with other factions
Allies
Though not part of it, the Order of the Lanceboard maintains cordial relations with the Order of the Red Falcon, and Lancers must complete a course of study at the Citadel of Strategic Militancy before they can reach the highest ranks of the Order. The Order works closely with the Lords' Alliance in the defense of the Sword Coast, and also maintains garrisons (the Order term for its guild houses) in Calimshan, Cormyr, Aglarond, Chessenta, Thay, and Mulhorand. It also keeps watch on Candlekeep, because its vast libraries are a treasure trove of intelligence, and nothing is more valuable to a military planner than intelligence.

Though their respective deities are not really allies, the Order is very closely aligned with the Church of Sune. One of the Order's traditions is that when its members marry, the ceremony is performed by Sunite clergy.


Enemies
The Order has only been around for a short time in historical terms, but has made many enemies. Chief among them are the churches of Bane, Lolth, and Shar.

The Black Lord sees the Red Knight as an upstart weakling hiding beneath Tempus’ skirts, and members of his church, particularly the Black Network, act accordingly. The Order of the Lanceboard has foiled numerous plots by his worshipers, including coup attempts in Chessenta and Tethyr. Banites can be the worst of their enemies because of their political power and wealth.

The Queen of the Demonweb Pits hates just about everything, but harbors a special malice for the Order of the Lanceboard thanks to the defeat of the Valsharess by Esmerelle Patten. Esmerelle killed numerous clerics of Lolth and commanded the defense force that slaughtered the Valsharess’ armies. The Order has since sheltered worshipers of Eilistraee and refugees from the Underdark, and battled incursions by the drow against surfacers. It even masterminded the assassinations of two particularly offensive drow matron mothers.

Shar dislikes the Lancers because, in their capacity as peacekeepers, they have destroyed numerous Sharran cells and generally made a nuisance of themselves to the Dark Goddess. In return, Sharrans have attempted assassinations of high-ranking Order members with little success. One cell even tried to summon an erinyes to ambush and kill Kalir Patten, but she detected its approach and chopped it to bits with the Sword of Gith.

Last but not least, Mephistophelean cultists hate the Lancers with a passion because the Lord of the Eighth was humiliated by Esmerelle Patten in Waterdeep in 1358 DR.


Known membership
The Order has approximately 200 full members and over 600 auxiliaries. The membership requirements are simple. Full members must be worshipers of the Red Knight, and cannot be of evil alignment. Auxiliary members can have any god as their patron, but must follow the Order's code, respect the Red Knight, be of any non-evil alignment, and cannot reach the highest leadership positions. Members of the Order are most often paladins or clerics, but there are also a large number of fighters, monks, divine champions, and gray guards. There's even a smattering of warmages.


link of info: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/U ... Lanceboard

Note: This article has been deemed non-canonical. This article covers a subject that has been deemed non-canonical by either the author or the Forgotten Realms licensees, and thus should not be taken as a part of the "real" Forgotten Realms universe. Should there be a need to discuss this further, please do so on the talk page.

Just has a good lot of information for use.[/b]

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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 17:29 PM 

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There's a bit of the back of Faiths and Pantheons, if you have the pdf own the book, about a Temple of Tempus. Its fairly detailed.


 
      
QPR
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 18:59 PM 

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What aligment are most Green Dragons? According to FR wiki (4th ed, i know, but still..) they are LE, but reading their descrpition they sound more like NE or CE.

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Bobo_Underhill
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 19:06 PM 

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Lawful Evil isn't an alignment in 4E.

So, Lawful Evil. Monster Manual says "Always Lawful Evil"

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QPR
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 19:10 PM 

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Oh. I'd think that loving to double cross isn't a very lawful trait, but I suppose dragons are different. On a related note, abour Dragon Disciples; they only gain wings as a matter of changed appearence, right? I thought Tormak posted sometime back that they not necesarily become scaly or with claws for hands etc.

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Bobo_Underhill
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 19:15 PM 

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Lawful evil people can double cross? Hell, even paladins can. There's loop holes in everything.

EDIT: Plus yeah, dragons are different.

Scales happen, yeah. Claws can too, but how big of an impact, if any, is mostly up to you.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 25 2010, 21:09 PM 

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According to the DMG, the following is 100% certain as the RDD levels:

Scales.
Claws suitable for combat.
Teeth suitable for combat.
Wings capable of flight.

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Pony
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 8:09 AM 



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TormakSaber wrote:
KrautBoy wrote:
I need as much info on Red Knight and Tempus as possible. Every last thing you can link that is not already 4th edition and hence sucks arse. Preferably soon due to a slight self-set deadline that I want to get a few things in the toolset done before.

Thanks!


That's vague. I could simply quote you the entirety of Faiths and Avatars and Faiths and Pantheons, but what do you actually need to know about them? They are both obviously gods of war, one CN, one LN. Tempus is a Greater Deity and Red Knight only his lieutenant/Lesser Deity servitor. Tempus is a deity of glorious and honorable war, not slaughter or murder. Red Knight is a deity of strategy and tactics, but not necessarily craven or cowardly acts. A well played ambush that allows 50 men to defeat 500 will win her heart; a knife in the dark and a murder will not. Temples to both are common and their worship is common almost everywhere. After all, combat is common, war is a fact of life, and you always want the gods on your side. Both Tempus and the Red Knight's favored color is red, and worshipers and devouts of Tempus will never, ever cover their faces.



Thanks for all of that. What I can still use is information on temples they have (Selvec gave me some info on one of their temples but I lost it and do not remember what it was called) or details on orders of the faith like the Order of the Steel Fang and Order of the Broken Blade.


 
      
Glyph
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 10:35 AM 

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Quote:
Lawful Evil isn't an alignment in 4E.


and thats where the fail began.

also, I thought the dragonform happens after level 4, and 9 respectively? (scales, and then wings and full dragonness...also the eyes but not sure thats a RDD thing.)

green dragons...*reads the 3.5 monster manual*...are lawful evil.

why bother trying to switch to 4th ed, we all know how poor it is...


 
      
Logicality
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 13:52 PM 

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Helm's hill. Where's its peak? Does it slope gradually at pretty much the same rate on all sides, or is one side steeper than the other?

That big "island" in the map of Amia in Cordor. Is that Cordor South? Or is that Cordor East, Central, and South, with the part of Cordor on the mainland being North and West? Or... what?

Fate's channel. Does this cut through the hill? If so, how deeply? Does it cut through near the base, leaving the north and west parts of Cordor significantly lower than the part separated from the mainland by the channel?

Moribund. How's that look? Just how small is it? Is it flat-ish?

The walkable "streams" running through Cordor, are they considered part of Fate's Channel? Or are they manmade?

Possibly more questions to come.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 18:42 PM 

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Logicality wrote:
Helm's hill. Where's its peak? Does it slope gradually at pretty much the same rate on all sides, or is one side steeper than the other?

That big "island" in the map of Amia in Cordor. Is that Cordor South? Or is that Cordor East, Central, and South, with the part of Cordor on the mainland being North and West? Or... what?

Fate's channel. Does this cut through the hill? If so, how deeply? Does it cut through near the base, leaving the north and west parts of Cordor significantly lower than the part separated from the mainland by the channel?

Moribund. How's that look? Just how small is it? Is it flat-ish?

The walkable "streams" running through Cordor, are they considered part of Fate's Channel? Or are they manmade?

Possibly more questions to come.


Helm's Hill is the entire plateau above sea level that Cordor rests on.

Moribund is a small island south of Cordor that functions as a graveyard. again, WYSIWYG.

Quote:
Helm's Hill: A subtle incline that the city of Cordor was built on, Helm's Hill stands as the foundation for the now thriving port city, having once been the majority of the reason for such a location to be used. The height outwards towards the outskirts on either side allow for scouts and the like to see a threat at a great distance, while the natural, yet subtle, decline away from the edge allows for opponents to have considerable trouble seeing anything beyond the outer crest.


Fate's Channel is the channel tahat cuts through Cordor. WYSIWYG.

Quote:
That big "island" in the map of Amia in Cordor. Is that Cordor South? Or is that Cordor East, Central, and South, with the part of Cordor on the mainland being North and West? Or... what?


Umm... you realize that's a map of all Amia Island, right? Not just Cordor. All of them are labelled, as well.

Streams are part of the channel.

tl;dr: I don't understand half f your questions, all of them are already answered in the very text you'd have had to read to ask thm in the first place.

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Logicality
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 19:16 PM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
Quote:
That big "island" in the map of Amia in Cordor. Is that Cordor South? Or is that Cordor East, Central, and South, with the part of Cordor on the mainland being North and West? Or... what?


Umm... you realize that's a map of all Amia Island, right? Not just Cordor. All of them are labelled, as well.


Image

I am talking about the part separated by what seems to be Fate's Channel.

Also, WYSIWYG would imply that Cordor is not on a hill (or plateau) at all, but completely flat all the way through, and just barely above sea level. What is described in that text certainly doesn't match up with what is seen in game, understandably due to tileset limitations. Or if it does, I am horribly confused.

--

Looking at a pieced-together version of Cordor, it seems that the big "island" separated from the mainland by Fate's Channel is indeed Cordor South. However, according to the map, Cordor Central is divided by the channel from the rest of Cordor, connected only through bridges and a dock. This is not reflected in-game; probably a minor mapping error, barely noticeable compared to the awesomeness of the rest of it. Additionally, there is nothing at all to imply a difference of height between Cordor and Cordor North; in fact, with this in mind, being that one has to walk up a hill to exit Cordor North while walking north, it gives the impression that Cordor is actually lower than the mainland.

Image

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Glyph
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 19:42 PM 

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WYSIWYG roughly...I remember when that river wasn't there, and it -was- on a hill. are you going by the old map still??

ed: yea, you need to update your cartography, though I see your point. think of it like venice, and don't forget amia is magic land, raised sea level can be real.

ed2: not -that- river wasn't there, the one near the farmlands. I was looking at the map wrong.


 
      
Logicality
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 19:51 PM 

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No, that is AlphaWaves' map, very recently created.

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Glyph
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 20:04 PM 

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so it is...its not actually that far off now I look closer >_>

I would like to note, cordor -was- on a hill, I remember it being so, I assumed it sunk a bit once I came back and the river and bridge had been added to the farmlands. map needs height lines >_>

ed: how did that river get there? there was a gap where I was not here, after the farmlands we're attacked, way way way back just before the job system was implimented >_>


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 21:55 PM 

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The map is WYSIWYG. You have most of east, central, and south. Most all of the city is on that "island". The rest of the walled area is the city outside, and then the outskirts before hitting the true city boundaries.

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Kudark
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 22:02 PM 

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Gosh Dangit! I can't take it anymore.

What does WYSIWYG mean or stand for or what?
LOL

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 22:02 PM 

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What You See Is What You Get.

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Kudark
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 22:09 PM 

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Nice. *nods*
thanks

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Logicality
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 22:18 PM 

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Okay. What about the hill? You referred to it is a plateau; does that plateau extend throughout walled Cordor? If so, does that mean that the areas around Cordor are slightly below sea level? (If WYSIWYG, Cordor is a foot above sea level.)

I'm just trying to get a visual... would this be similar to the view of Helm's Hill from north and/or west of Cordor?

Image

or maybe this?

Image


(Also, I now see what the deal was with that piece of land connecting Cordor Central with Cordor West; it is indeed only accessible by bridge from Cordor Central, thus implying it's its own piece of land.)

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PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 22:23 PM 

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I'll let Yoss handle the Helm's Hill stuff more in depth... he made it. It's possible it applied pre-destruction.

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Gunz
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 26 2010, 23:04 PM 



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QPR wrote:
Oh. I'd think that loving to double cross isn't a very lawful trait, but I suppose dragons are different.


Sure it is. Look at Devils and tell me lawful people don't like to double cross. 8)

Or for a divine example: http://amiawiki.shatuga.com/index.php/Gargauth

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Glyph
 
PostPosted: Fri, Aug 27 2010, 9:48 AM 

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double crossing is a good/evil issue imho, lawful is how you behave around towns and people. where as chaotic is where you do not behave at all.


 
      
AlphaWaves
 
PostPosted: Fri, Aug 27 2010, 12:08 PM 

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You can be well behaved if you're chaotic. Also double crossing is more on the lawful/chaotic scale, not good/evil. Double crossing is not evil or good or neutral in that sense. It's going back on someone's word or similar, so therefore a chaotic trait.

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Logicality
 
PostPosted: Fri, Aug 27 2010, 19:04 PM 

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I've always seen "Lawful" as more "Principled" than anything. Following one's own personal code, etc etc. If one has principles, and in following those principles ends up double crossing someone, they are still being lawful.

Similarly, it makes no real sense to think of "chaotic" as "unlawful"; a chaotic character can still obey the laws of the land, it's whether or not she follows a set of personal laws that determines where she falls on the law/chaos scale. Maybe the less mindful of chaotic characters would "not behave at all", but clever ones will obey the law if it's immediately beneficial.

And yeah, devils are LE, and they double cross people. A fun if overused theme is a devil presenting a contract to a mortal which appears to favour the mortal, and using the fine print of the contract against him. A contract represents an agreement, and twisting the details of that contract against the implied spirit of it seems rather like "double-crossing" to me.

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QPR
 
PostPosted: Fri, Aug 27 2010, 20:57 PM 

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I was thinking more of the description I read; That Green Dragons often accept bribes from travellers so they may pass safely through it's territory, but attack them when they have their guard down. Seems more chaotic than lawful to me; ie go back on your word.

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Glyph
 
PostPosted: Fri, Aug 27 2010, 20:59 PM 

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lawful evil, by deffinition, double cross. your wrong. else they would just be lawful neutral.

one example is using forms (paper documents) to trick you into something, only to later find out it was meaningless and the fine print even said so.

this is why devils and demons are different in dnd.

also if your a chaotic berzerker behaving around towns, I sincerly hope you re-think your RP.


 
      
AlphaWaves
 
PostPosted: Fri, Aug 27 2010, 21:23 PM 

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Double crossing is not an act of evil, glyph.

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Wyjyn
 
PostPosted: Sat, Aug 28 2010, 4:36 AM 

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AlphaWaves wrote:
Double crossing is not an act of evil, glyph.


Alignment discussions are always difficult really, because they are grounded in real life ethics and I would look on dubiously at anyone who claims to truly comprehend the subject. Kant, for instance, would say double crossing and lying are just evil in and of themself. Even if you are, say, double crossing someone who is a sadistic killer just looking to murder someone for fun, Kant would probably still view the act as evil.

That said, I quite like the idea of putting it into the Lawful vs. Chaotic category.

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Yurell
 
PostPosted: Sat, Aug 28 2010, 4:54 AM 

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It would seem best to relegate alignment questions to another thread IMO. There details are very nebulous, and involve a lot of opinions than concrete 'lore'.

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Wyjyn
 
PostPosted: Sat, Aug 28 2010, 5:20 AM 

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Yurell wrote:
It would seem best to relegate alignment questions to another thread IMO. There details are very nebulous, and involve a lot of opinions than concrete 'lore'.


I think it is valid for the lore thread for a simple reason: the questions are often more about whether certain acts are always evil, such as animating the dead, or whether certain codes/gods oppose things, such as paladins or tyr. Outside of that, I would avoid alignment discussion beyond a fun theoretical discussion.

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Grymia
 
PostPosted: Sat, Aug 28 2010, 5:21 AM 

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Palladium system, had a lot of complication issues but their alignment system did one thing right. It provided a clearer definition of it's alignments and what people would do likely and wouldn't in that alignment.


 
      
Wyjyn
 
PostPosted: Sat, Aug 28 2010, 5:29 AM 

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Grymia wrote:
Palladium system, had a lot of complication issues but their alignment system did one thing right. It provided a clearer definition of it's alignments and what people would do likely and wouldn't in that alignment.


I actually think that is doing it wrong, leave the alignments misunderstood and as a guide. That is the way to view them, as a guide reinforced by specific deity/class codes.

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ticket
 
PostPosted: Sun, Aug 29 2010, 11:07 AM 

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I need a primer to DnD. Having too many editions and choices is stopping me from learning more. And I'm too lazy to google-fu my way through so I'll just throw my questions here.

I know that every new DnD edition introduces different mechanics, but does it also introduce new lore? Does a new edition of DnD advance the age of the DnD world?
What are the years that each edition covers?
What edition does Amia adhere to?
What's the difference between the 3e and 3.5e?
What book should I get if I'm just interested in the lore and the DnD universe? I'm not really interested in the mechanics of the game.
WTF is the forgotten realms?
What's included and what's not included in it?
What are the other universes in DnD?

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