Yeees the sky is falling.
# C? - What will happen next, What concept will be on the list of degrading and shaming for having taken the place as 'Number One'. [/list][/i]

Paladins, Barbarians, or HiPSTERs.

Well.. Does it have to be NWN?

The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!

There's no slippery slope here. For the most part, these changes have been discussed for years. Changing GS or Dev Crit has always been a pipedream for many, and the spam of Heal potions and how it ridicules healing priests has been an acknowledged issue forever. Now somebody finally took the initiative an organized a balance team to go through these issues thoroughly. They've been mulling over these things behind closed doors for almost a year now, IIRC.

I don't see how the cooldown on raising makes your cleric any less cool. It's time to prepare the proper ceremonies and pray for the expensive and powerful spell that you're about to cast. Five minutes to role-play after a PvP is not a punishment. It's a treat. Finally some idiot won't run up immediately and raise the dead with a slip of paper like it was nothing. You're not supposed to be casting it several times in the middle of combat, no matter how good of a healer you are.

Great.
Just great.

I am now stuck with a character who wasn't exactly a powerhouse before, doing sweet [removed] all in terms of damage but at least being reasonably tough, doing even less damage than before. Down to 3 attacks per round, 2 damage less with divine favour. That'll let me hit for, oh, say 20 damage on a hit, 3 times a round. If I hit that many, that is, because I've also lost the second full BAB attack...

You say the sky isn't falling, it is. What this does is completely change the playing field, heavily in favour of melee builds. What the hell ever happened to good old AD&D? Where did people get the queer idea that casters are supposed to be balanced? I don't mind them being balanced either, but that means having a fair fighting chance, which at this point I just might have against a household cat. Not sure, how many attacks does the cat get?

And then I get people complaining that the last thing going for this char should be nerfed too. HipS.
Right, please go whine somewhere else. I'd like to be left with a char that is at least able to get away from things with her 10 SD levels, because GS is useless for that as well now.

Do not expect to see my cleric in PvP again. Ever. It wasn't fun before, it's not even funny now.

Down to 3 attacks per round, 2 damage less with divine favour. That'll let me hit for, oh, say 20 damage on a hit, 3 times a round. If I hit that many, that is, because I've also lost the second full BAB attack...

And in the end, we'll all be exactly the same. Plinking away at eachother with exactly the same effect. Because it'll be balanced.

Ugh.

And after that?
And after that?
And after that?

And after THAT - Amia's NWN Won't be NWN.

Spoke to some folks IG; and they mentioned that servers who 'Adjust' To much roll downhill after a while, Loosing players.

How much is to much, Really? When do you start loosing players?

There's no slippery slope here. For the most part, these changes have been discussed for years. Changing GS or Dev Crit has always been a pipedream for many, and the spam of Heal potions and how it ridicules healing priests has been an acknowledged issue forever. Now somebody finally took the initiative an organized a balance team to go through these issues thoroughly. They've been mulling over these things for almost a year now, IIRC.

I don't see how the cooldown on raising makes your cleric any less cool. It's time to prepare the proper ceremonies and pray for the expensive and powerful spell that you're about to cast. Five minutes to role-play after a PvP is not a punishment. You're not supposed to be casting it several times in the middle of combat, no matter how good of a healer you are.

No, but I'd like it to be DnD.

Where's my Tormak bashing? I want one too! My posts are asking for one!

Tormak, don't even start with me you self righteous prick...

You are the one that always calls for people to build according to their RP. You are the one that complains most loudly when someone builds to gain power.

You are now pretty much flaming me for doing exactly what you have wanted people to do all this time. Shynt'iira is a pure RP build. She has never been very powerful in either PvP or PvE, simply because of abilities that I wanted her to have for the sake of the character. As far as RP goes, the build is awesome, but right now I am sick and tired of having to put up with all kinds of shit simply because she can barely defend herself.

The only thing these balance changes do is make weak builds even weaker.

You're a cleric SD and you're complaining? You literally have the full suite of cleric buffs, AND an unnerfed HIPS and you're complaining?

Getout.gif

And all those buffs don't do shit for me, because I can't actually use them.

The spell DC is not high enough to have an effect. No spell penetration, weak melee damage, no sneaks. You do the math.

HipS is the only reason she doesn't die every time a pigeon attacks her.

Although I fear for the Yath.. Well, and Sorcere.. Magthere will be a lot stronger.. Hrm.. That a lot of switch-a-roo for us.

n.b. this posts are made from the perspective of me as a player not me as a DM.

A mage that can't kill a meleer without GS / Bigby is no mage and should be kicked out of the Sorcere on their arse anyway.

like I says killing ze fighters is not ze problem

*looks at your will save, casts wail, you die...waits 5 mins to rez...*

...?

I posted this to Voronwer already. See, I mastered this on my paladin and wizard, so when PvP came? I handled it with flying colors.

You see, you generally have a ltot of spell slots. There exists this metamagic feat called "Extend Spell". What it does, is doubles the duration of spells. This allows you to cast your turns/level, or, heaven forbid, your hours/level spells (the non obtrusive ones. Hell maybe the obtrusive ones!), and you *just let them run.* When they wear off, you do this thing called "Resting", which you can easily do because extended buffs last a really long time, even as a level 16 caster. So while you're RPing, you do this thing like, where you emote praying and stuff. And then you rebuff. That way, if PvP happens? All you have to do is like, toss up Power, Favor, and smash. Maybe drink a haste pot or whatever. See, because of this, the OTHER guy can't sit in GS and buff either!

Dunno man. I've seen people play clerics and rock house, and it's always the same people complaining about the clerics, and I watch them fight, and they're so used to GS that it's a crutch for them. They can't function without it. they CAN. With flying colors. But they don't, because it was too good. Perhaps I'm using it wrong and Ruce will correct me if I am, but he has a semi-famous saying in regards to balance on Amia. It says that if he can't imagine living without something, or if he wants somthing added NOW, it is probably too good, and it should be nerfed/balanced/not added/etc etc etc.

P.S.: You chose to have 10 SD levels so don't complain that your cleric spells aren't as good. I don't roll a level 10 barbarian/level 10 wizard/level 10 blackguard and complain that I'm middling at all three of the above. Of course I am.

Flames? Nah. Lampoon. Satire. Lampshades. Overdramaticism to match that which is being thrown around in this topic like everything else. This topic seriously reads like the 4.0 patch notes topics in WoW. Scary shit.

P.S.: You chose to have 10 SD levels so don't complain that your cleric spells aren't as good. I don't roll a level 10 barbarian/level 10 wizard/level 10 blackguard and complain that I'm middling at all three of the above. Of course I am.

Pretty sure all that is part of RP, too.

The only thing I have a small problem with. Is the heal potions.
If the changes are going to be as they are, I would propose a significant decrease in the price. . The point of the potions was to be healed fully. . I mean, On a server where it is constantly on hardcore (Being able to be crit by monsters/Attack of oppurtunities with potion drinking, point blank shooting/Rolling for the amount of HP that potions heals).. Where your potions normally may heal... 15-25 hp... when being hit by serveral things, which get attacks of oppurtunities, which may or may not hit you, and make the whole process of drinking the potion infact entirely pointless aside from a few seconds more of life.

The true problem here is that Heal potions are used primarly in PVP which winds up with "Who ever has the most money wins."
Quite frequently PC's in PVE ~NEED~ the heal potions to be able to survive an ambush. . and quite frequently they need to drink more then one at a time to be able to get out of being boxed in. For those with low AC or HP.
So with that in mind, I have a suggestion. . that the timer be activated for the heal potions only when a Hostile PC is nearby. That or raise the price of the heal potions to say... 76k a stack.. Hell, maybe even 100k a stack... that way they really are expencive. .and are worth what they heal. . or worth more then what they heal even.

Death on Amia is nothing, I admit that... Comming from another server where the minimum xp loss you can get from a death is 5% total XP and the maximum loss is 9% total XP. The gold costs for the Average death was 6000gold. And that was if your body was around for it. If your body wasnt, you could have someone raise you at a temple, which would cost 45000gold. Those two Rezzes would result in an average 5% of your total XP being lost, and that wasnt using the Raise or Resserection spell.
The raise or resserection spells would be free, but would cost the most XP to have done, Raise would be 9% total XP loss, and Rez would be 7% total Xp loss... but this is irrelevant for the current argument, but it does show how lite death is on Amia.
But still, Death is Death, its plain annoying. No one Enjoys being killed out in the wilderness.
For those who can not buff themselves adequately it comes even easier in some area's.. and without the help of the Full Heal Potions they are likely to be screwed. Because other potions quite simply dont heal enough HP to be usefull at later levels, when things can hit you for 40 damage a swing, or crit often enough to make even drinking one small potion utterly pointless.
As I stated above, I believe that the main reason for the change is PVP. "He/She who has the most money wins, and can gloat about it". If it's possable, something to even out the PVP and PVE of it. Would be to enable the timer only when a hostile PC is nearby. . . OR, have the timer activate when the PVP tool is activated by a player, and for the player who activates it target.


Wait, I lied.. Not the only thing I have a problem with.
Raise Dead & Ressurection.
I understand the cooldown for Raises and Rez's in PVP.. Because I imagine its plain annoying going into PVP and killing someone, or two people, then someone comes in from the side and rezzes them, then you have them attacking you yet again, and again, and again... I wouldn't know, I try to stay out of PVP personally.
But a 2minute cool down could be quite annoying in the PVE area... although admittedly, it can add for a little bit of RP during the time you need to wait for the timer to be ready to do the Rez, but it could also be quite annoying... Say, if you need to get out quickly.. or its a dangeriously unstable area that the person died in, so you want to rez them and get the hell out so you can drag away whatever is causing it to be dangerious, keeping you alive and the person you just raised.
Although the way around that of course would be running out of the area entirely, and waiting for the spawn to either despawn, or just regrouping then charging back in to rescue the fallen.
So I guess I managed to even out the bad with the Raise and Ressurection thing mid Rant.. So it can likely be ignored, but I'll leave it there anyway.

Infact, here's an idea with the Raise/Rez thing... Instead of Timers... Perhaps the Spells need Reagents to work.. Or the raised Target suffers a sort of ressurection sickness.. which could be a temporairy level/stat drain.
Which actually to me, makes sence.. because in PnP. .When you die, you lose the last 6hours of your memory.. or at least thats how it was allways played with me. So having that stat/level drain penalty after a raise/rez would be fitting.. the person who got raised can either wait for it to wear off, or can see a cleric or NPC priest to have it removed.
To go with the idea of reagents for Raise/Rez, perhaps the scrolls could be increased in price.. or, a second scroll added which comes with the reagent and offers a clean rez.
Or hell, making it so that the effect from Raising/Rezzing is impossable to take effect while in combat.
Or even having the spell cast on the character, starts the timer for the rez... Say, someone see's a corpse, hits Raise or Rez on them.. then walks off... a Minute later said person is braught back to life.
I do like the cool down for the PVP part however. I think the only people who should be able to raise people constantly mid fight, should be possably Necromancers or Pale Masters, who animate the corpses of the fallen.. other then that, the 5 minute cool down on PVP raising is I believe a good idea, that way people cant win a battle through shear numbers, because someone raised someone else many times during the battle which lead to the side who got killed many times, winning.


Alright, Rant over. I hope some of these ideas are actually helpfull aswell =)

-Rayne

Puff saved Cordor by climbing in a Golem's ass. <.< All fear the ass goblin.

Not a cleric. Seems feasible though.

ed: what exactly do you want to do to hips? far as I learned, ICLY, within 10 meters of a shadow you are utterly gone. nuff said. what about that needs changing?

The more this thread progresses, the more I laugh.

Dramatics to the extreme, I mean, this is better than theatre. .

If you took a class or a feat for the RP, these changes should not affect you. The Dev one at most, as it is changing the entire feat as a whole 'ICly', but the others? Daymn. You're still a Divine Spellcaster capable of casting level 6 spells. You're still a mage capable of summoning arcane creatures and delving in ancient lore. You're still a musclebound expert of melee combat. If the mechanics changes ruin your character's RP, maybe you need to reconsider your approach to RP.