5 Epic wizards, 1 epic sorc: I agree with the changes, and I think my suggestion holds merit.

2 Epic Clerics: I agree with the changes.

Thematically dev crit is pretty cool now. IMO. Still think 18-20 weapons shouldn't get a bonus. I said it before. It bares reiterating.



Until he got morded.

Kekekeke

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

Or EQed.

It was not about the changes, it was a reply to your comment about how people play thier Wizards, Sorcerors, and Clerics. It was to say that you can care about youw build and it being weakened without being a player that just seems to, in your opinion, crave power and 'stomp' people.

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Main: Riz'rae Faerfyn
Others: Aelron Rilynrae, Aeronor Tel'vyr

That would mean Devy Crit is useless for 18-20. Nobody would use those weapons. Sure, give more incentive to use two-handed weapons, but not by making 18-20 range weapons completely unviable.

Edit: as far as Devy Crit.

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Main: Riz'rae Faerfyn
Others: Aelron Rilynrae, Aeronor Tel'vyr

They're numerically superior due to their threat range. The bonus damage output they're capable of putting out is superior.

Anything with a fort save is a tool for use in PvM, and against people who don't pvp, has been since the +3 fort = 1 mcs power change.

Only reason dev on little weapons was popular was fishing for 1's.

I don't care that Dev is useless for them, I think it should be.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

People will still fish for ones with the change. If you want your character to PvP, you simply won't pick an 18-20 weapon. They'll go away. Which, admittedly, would be kind of cool because I know most of us are tired of the vast majority using rapier or scimitar and it would force a more various array of weaponry in use, but if that's the goal you may as well just remove the weapons.

I don't think rapiers/scimitars/kukris get more damage out put simply because they have a higher crit range when other weapons have higher base damage and higher crit multiplier, but I'm not sure about that. It's just a 'hunch'.

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Main: Riz'rae Faerfyn
Others: Aelron Rilynrae, Aeronor Tel'vyr

Unless they can stop the player from tapping the stealth button, I don't see the big fuss over them adding a cooldown to HIPS. I've played on a number of servers with a cooldown for HIPS and none so far have been able to stop the first millisecond of stealthing that comes from tapping the button. This means you can't just sneak around to the other side of a target between strikes, but it is enough time to interupt any and all attacks on you sans AOE spells. Tactics may need to change, as A cooldown will inhibit a clean get away, but as I have seen it implemented in the past, it will remain useful enough to be worth 6 levels of the class.

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

Awesome changes!

I've seen places that have added a real cooldown for hips by removing the hips feat when people stealth, then add it again when they spend so long unstealthed.

That way if you try to hips before the timer is up, you don't have the feat and therefore can't do it. Plus it means that it doesn't intefere you stealthing normally ^_^

make a weapon that isn't a scythe and give it x4 crits with no range whatsoever, is the solution to that. need more weapons that arn't scythes...>_>

more to the point, if you do all three things to get that 18 to a 12 you sure as heck want some damage out of it. the best damage bonuses other than the weapon itself, come from overwhelming crit, and prior to the changes, exploding things. now I imagine dev chopsticks have more of a *stab stab stab stab* repeatedly quality. other than the crit range you might as well go monk, and i'm pretty sure dev kama's are on the same...plateau...

I don't know why bioware favoured bladed weapons so much nor do I think they expected this, or cared because it doesn't effect their profits anymore, but there are a very few weapons that are useful with criticals because for most of us the maximum critical range is 18-20, with keen, and improved critical. thus katana's, bastard swords, and this whole 'everyone' uses a toothpick thing, which is not entirely true but that said i've yet to see a cleric stick with a mace yet.

ed: the choice there is choosing between having two weapons, one and a shield, or one massive one. focusing on hits per round, ac balance, and raw damage respectively.

I don't see a problem with either of the three but 'toothpicks' as they have been named seam to be getting a bad rap because of the dual welt deving

Still wondering about it, since I got no comments regarding my observation.

OH GOD YES, YESSSSSSSSS!

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

Cleric is still überpantz, people just have to learn to play them better now.

The good players nearly never buffed in combat; they ran away with GS to super themselves in a peaceful place. When you cast spells with an AoE VFX, it's easy for anyone to locate you even if you were GS'd, and there were always ways to disrupt that buffing. Well, of course the battlefield was often too much a hassle for anyone to bother, but still in petit confrontations it was significant. The only change to GS was that now you always have to find a different sanctuary for übering yourself.

Besides, Clerics have so many other tricks up their sleeves people have never been arsed to care about, because of the idiotic power the former GS and Divine Power granted them in PvP.

Alamut: It's only -1 AB and damage to people with 16 BG levels and really you can cope with it.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

I can both deal with and agree with that for hips, just don't break default hide then please =) so we have something. fighting fire giants with an entirely rouge based build is hard enough already.

Having looked at the changes I would just like to say I thoroughly approve of them. Good work you lot behind the curtain. I can only imagine the headaches you guys and gals must have gone through to get it all done.

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Siggy by Maryn

Damn, go to sleep and a whole 4 pages pops up. Anyway.



Can agree with all of that Mosh, and if it was adding 2 attacks, then it was right to take the 2nd attack off. I simply never observed that. But taking all attacks off from it makes it simply unappetizing. In conjunction with not being able to use potions, spells being gone and having one less attack to start off with when compared to Cleric, there's no "balance" in removing the extra attack. Cleric's DP =/= Tenser's transformation, in both what they prohibit and the classes that use them.

Couldn't you just fix it to where Tenser's would only give 1 bonus attack at best? 3 attacks per round, 4 hasted when you're not specked for melee(have none of the feats nor uberstrength), can't use your class's bread and butter(unlike cleric), can't heal/flee/build up your defenses, it's not overpowering. And it certainly doesn't set you on par with a fighter or put you at the forefront of anything either.

You can still get 4 attacks a round on a mage with level 9 spells. 5 when hasted. It was painful to see level 30, pure mages run round with an AB as effective as real melee builds', a good whim more AC, but less damage. They still had the ability to cast spells of doom that literally brought any meleer down to its knees.

Fret not, it's still lovely. With three attacks a round normally and with other über spells, Tenser's Transformation brings a build devoted to spell-swording, or whatever you kids call it, to almost the same efficiency as a full-blooded WM, with the capacity to buff itself with spells undispellable by scrolls. May the Tenser's wear off, you cast a GS and retreat or then rely on offensive spells, that still remain useful against numerous people.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

"Useful" and "worth slotting" are two different things. Ironguts is useful.

But couldn't all you just said -still- be done by Cleric? Even more so, because they can still use their Imploding spells of dhoom while under DP. And they have a better AB progression and attacks per round to start off with. And they can still -heal spam- while under it's effects, something that no one else can do with even potions, let alone the mage in tenser's than cannot do anything but try to make the best of Heal Kits and being flat-footed.

Okay, I just have to say something. My Main right now is Zelly, an RDD Arcane Archer with Dev Crit: Longbow.

Zelly was never harmed by Bigby before. She could pretty reliably beat the Bull Rush due to her RDD STR bonus and possessing Dev Crit and such. Now, also because she's an RDD/AA, she has crap-saves and Forceful takes her down in an instant, every single time (have tested this - even a scroll will take her down!). For her, it's an insta-kill button that an archer didn't need - that she really didn't need. She also has GS items for when she's in a pickle. Those are now nulled to lasting about 12 seconds. Her Ranged Dev Crit is also broken now, because of mechanics and the way Ranged Dev is done. She doesn't get a save right now, so until (if) that can be fixed, everything that made her who she is and gave her the traits that make her who she is, as far as fighting goes, is completely ripped up, smashed, and thrown to the wind.

But you know what? I'm loving the RP that's come of her realizing she sucks now. And she's working as hard as she can to improve her tactics in case she ever does get in a real fight.

Seriously. Suck it up. My character is completely useless now, but I'm not crying over it.

Disclaimer: The above is directed to the folks who cry over their "ruined" character.

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My point is just that we shouldn't have to look at Divine Power when trying to figure out the balance for Tenser's, for the reasons I stated a few pages back.

DI.

Absolutely different. Wizards and sorcerers still are dandier in buffing the whole party and have a different variety of spells.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

My favourite builds were nerfed a year ago. Now I am just happy about other people's misery as these tricks are the ones I have not bothered relying on.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

I agree that they're different, which is why I don't understand the reasoning to take the extra attack from one just because the other.

In any case, what will be done will be done, which is nothing I imagine until things pan out.

Actually what I predict will happen with cleric now is you'll see a bunch of 23/6/1 builds with SD thrown in. As Tormak so aptly put it just four months ago:



I'm not sure what's changed since then, but the idea of running around full buffed on the offchance you might find yourself in PvP is patently ridiculous. There are multiple reasons people don't do that. God help you if you need to rest and rebuff in any situation where a potential adversary is near. According to the rules as is he can assume your intentions are hostile and gank you while you are resting. And yes I know about Extend Spell, thanks. I also know about something called RP which can take quite a long time in any given scenario.

It's also the equivalent of walking around with a loaded machine gun, which will have IC repercussions in and of itself.

Even if you do get into a scrap with all your hour and turn buffs intact, and your opponent somehow does not have a Mord available (i.e. he has been living on the moon), you can forget about roundbuffing with more than one or two spells, since once the shit does hit the fan anyone standing there in the open casting a string of buffs is going to be taken down like a pinata on Cinco de Mayo.

And of course if he does have a Mord, as anyone with UMD or mage levels does, the party is over before it begins. Because you can no longer GS and re-buff, even if you've prepared a second set as any smart cleric has done up til now.

I'm sorry, but there is no "adaptation" to this, short of possibly using HiPS the way GS was used before. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no clue how clerics operate in PvP.

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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)

I have to say the thing I am most upset about after messing around with a few of my characters and reading this thread again is that I am agreeing with Tormak 100%. I usually enjoy arguing with him.

The Nerf to dev crit did make one of my characters nearly unplayable mostly because I sacrificed damage output for the chance for a quick kill on it's build. but by the same token loosing dev crit on one of my other builds is irrelevant because an average crit for him is from 125 to 175 and the fact that there is no more colossal damage/kill from dev crit makes his damage reduction more impressive.

I never played my mage as a GS user and I never memorize Bigby on him because I play a mass destruction style caster. If the spell doesn't do damage he won't use it. My cleric is a bit upset about GS but the other nerfs really don't effect my play style with him either. I tend not to use him as a battle cleric but use my spells as support and buffs. This just means that I use my bow more than a melee weapon.

I don't really like the effect of the dev crit nerf. It did make me have to consider a rebuild on one character or just not play him anymore but overall I don't think the others were all that bad.

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"Toss me...I cannot jump the distance. You will have to toss me." -Gimli

That's kinda my initial thoughts too. When I saw the duration of GS as it is ingame, I was thinking "great, now everyone's gonna walk around with all their buffs on, looking like supernovas." Mainly because GS serves the roll Invisibility serves on low-magic servers, but alas, this is not the case with Amia. The prevalence of Mord scrolls and True Seeing/SeeInvis breaks down the buffing barrier between caster and melee.

*shrug* I'm still unsure on what that exactly means. I know for a fact my caster just sees his buffing spells as "equipment" to put on. You'd never catch a fighter in the wilderness without their fullplate on, so in his eyes, you'd never catch him without EMA on. So in truth, walking around in full-buff may not be the prettier adaptation, but it is in fact the logical IC one.

That comes at a price, of course, as you said. A loaded machine gun that everyone can see. But I, along with most of the casters out there now, would much rather be a loaded machine gun and have a means to deal with what arises immediately, rather than a machine gun I'm going to have to load for 4 rounds before the fight.

Divine shield can't be morded. Neither can +4 armor, +5 AB / +4 enhance weapons. Its suppose to be a nerf.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

LOL. Well, it sure is.

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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)

I checked more then one time. It's -2 AB lvl 16. That's quite something if you haven't much tricks as clerics. So In my opinion, if you want to balance the cleric, I would go for Divine power.

This.

I freely admit that I was very annoyed at most of the changes. However, after several hours of thought, I can see the utility beyond any minor detriment to my own toons. People are resistant to change. But the change here, while being relatively instantaneous to the players, has been thought about, studied, and discussed for months by the Dev team.

After spending some time thinking about how the various changes realate to my on characters, very little has actually changed. DevCrit has changed, but the same characters who could only be affected by rolling a 1 are still unaffected, so no real change there.

Which brings me to my only remaining concearn, why make Bigby's the same as Wail and DevCrit? Just curious as to the rationale of providing Fort builds another spell to be resistant to. Not making any judgement on the change as I've not been considering and discussing it, just wondering what the balance behind it is.

Too, an advisory about the red glowing effect would have been nice before spending three raise scrolls on a companion in the middle of combat. Thought it was a visual glitch...

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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.

-Krrja

I love the changes.

No more snickering mages hiding behind GS.

No more casters out melee'ing a dedicated melee build.

No more refried, reraised people running around. People complain they want death to mean more..and when it actually does they complain...lol....I love it!

No more quaffing a hundred heal pots as you are swarmed by twenty creatures futilely trying to destroy you.

If you can't kill someone after you've made them blind, deaf, and on the floor, then YOU deserve to die.

Restorations?!....while you're blind deaf and on the floor?!

Oh....someone else restored them...guess what jackass, don't attack a mob by yourself then.

Honestly people some of the whining "The sky is falling" is so pathetically lame I'm about to crap now.

The one good post I have seen that contributes at ALL....is Dwagin's post of adding speed to GS to actually allow a person to escape....except I'd add one more thing...since GS is like kind of plane walking(as in the etherial plane or somesuch), make Dragon TS or any other forms of allowing sight to be negated. If someone can see you and tosses MORD, they have broken the rules by attacking without hostiling and a DM can be notified.

GS isn't etherealness.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

correction, GS isn't etherealness 'here'.

and the snickering mages was the fun part I will miss. personally I would go with 'walk around with the epic construct and see who wants to try it' method now that GS...well i guess i'll find out when I try it. (i don't have a build that has mummy dust though.)

When playing my cleric, druid or mage, I usually buff up the things without vfx. Abilities, ac etc. Only when I predict tension might arise though.

In case of an emergency is to hostile first, haste potion and GS to a safe, semi-safe location to get a few spells up.
The talk about being hunted by an umberhulk whilst in GS is odd. If you hostile them they should not be able to see you. It should be easy to run away. Otherwise cast an earthquake/timestop/grease on them and run for the hills to buff or flee. Umberhulk form has great weaknesses. Ask the shifters about items that merge.

About the HiPS and timestop. They would both do well with a timer. Two or three rounds between HiPS'es and about five rounds for timestop. Imagine the strain on your body from being fast as lightning.
The best that could happen to timestop, is making it work all the time, but if you decide to continiously spam it, your body will weaken and begin to take damage (It has a 9 second duration for a reason I wager). Say you get a buff logo saying something like "Energies need to disperse", meaning that the grand magical energies which you infused yourself with needs to exit your body completely, before making another attempt. If you choose to use it again, more of said magical energy would gather inside you, slowly taking its toll on you.
Something like:
5d8 magical damage to yourself (no save), if used before five rounds has passed.
or
3d10 magical damage and ability damage as per curse spell (which stack, no save).
or
Will save vs. daze and fort save vs. falling prone from exhaustion.


Speaking of spells, I do love horrid wilting, but the damage seems insane. 25d8 vs. 20d6 meteor swarm. Hmm.. really? Dungeon Master's guide has a guideline for creating spells I read through, trying to make a custom spell for Amia. As a level 8 mage spell, the AoE damage can maximum be 20dx. Single target 25dx. For level 9 mage spells goes 25dx single and 25dx AoE. D6 and d8 as damage basically. It might irritate people, but I would like to see horrid wilting get cut at 20d8 for that reason. Perhaps the damage is higher, since it doesn't affect undead, golems and such, but its still higher damage-wise that it should be.

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tbh, I'd rather alot more of the 'nuke' spells scale for CasterLVL beyond 20 that don't currently.All the way to 30.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

Because there's none to make. Deal w/ it. *smugface*

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Bigby's should have been the scaled STR rolls (IMO) but it got outvoted.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

not reading about 85% of the recent posts im juts gonna throw this out there.

Greater Sanctuary nerf is loved... in ways I think the duration makes any use of Epic quality items limited at best same for scrolls, Do I expect a scroll to be so useful as a mage not at all. But at least enough time to use a potion or two and a heal without having to run for my life because the spells duration went from about 5 minutes to about 5 seconds legitimately. This single nerf removes the usefulness of Scrolls, Cloak of greater Sanctuary and any other handy item out there that can -prevent- Mass pvp and actually add to RP.

The nerf on raising and resurecctions is completely understandable, for no reason should someone who was just murdered icly be run up and raised again simply to heal and continue fighting as if they were never struck down.... HOWEVER I feel that some times in dueling situations with the already limited use of 1 per five minutes with the pvp tool this does make things a little more meh in the waiting game.... people like to fight each other not just for the bloody pvp combat but for the additional rp and learning experience of newbile fighters and sometimes there isnt always an arena present to do so. A suggesting could be when in duel mode with the pvp tool unlimited uses? clearly there is no good way to do this without people abusing it but there has to be something better thats all...

Bigbys- As a whole its great to see this massively abused spell to have a legitimate save... one would almost think a discipline check would be more applicable due to it effects your position on the field from standing to on your arse. but just the same kudos on this coming from someone who plays a mage as well. Maybe people will mix it up with other just as useful spells.

Divine Favor- Take one of the most basic and level 1 spells and make it weaker. I simply fail to see the logic.... on that note what about fixing palemasters? immune to crit (not like it does anything anymore) having full attributes of undead yet chugging heal potions galore Blessed aim should 100% work on them it may be a graft but it effects there whole body.

Healing- Ive since the nerf used heal potions and the like and found while it doesnt make a large impact on what I do daily it has its times when its simply annoying. An example would be before a boss fight you heal your not really near death or anything but your hurt and the upcoming battle will be intense and should not be taken lightly so you would want to go into the fight at full health. However now you have just used your potion to heal maybe 50% of your life which counts as a 100% so there for you have to wait ten rounds before you can heal again to any actual use. So in you run fully healed and ready for the battle but now you find after only healing 50% of your life that instead of five rounds you have to wait ten... and your dead. FTL. Understandably people abuse heal potions in pvp thats really more of a pride gamer issue then anything else. I dont think that that single potion which could save the life of you and your entire party should heal you for 40 points of HP for 1000 gold.

Tensers- Dont even care mages shouldnt be fighting imo they are mages they cast spells in the back of the party not run up and dev stuff cuz they can.

Dev crit- Alot was done to this.... it was pointed out before that a feat which takes 5 other feats even to be able to get can and will be removed by a single potion easily avaiable to anyone there fore removing your fighters greatest asset with a 300 gold potion. Fighters already have enough to worry about between low flex and and will saves. There are admittedly alot of cheese builds who have just enough str for the feat and count on ones... But in reality what is a 1? A one is a chance a chance everyone takes walking across the street to get hit by a car.... its a chance it happens people die everyday.... A skilled fighter who has been trained for a life time would not Blind or Deafen someone when they strike them with a sword/axe/halbred in the face.... They would be hurt critically I personally would like to see all of those cheesy effects removed and a more legitimate damage addition done and yes something epic something which makes the feat more worth while. I had seen it before and I like the idea of increased multiplier and rangeor how about simply a 4d8 addition to damage....I feel anything is better then crippling so many builds out there something to maybe rethink IMO. Fortitude saves are not hard to come by and 1 rolls are simply the beshaba cursing you... it happens. deal with it.

If you are so concerned about balance how about helping classes which have been spoken of for over a year now like assassins whos Death attack is more like a piss attack because all it does is make people piss there pants laughing at a pathetic DC or simply everyone having an item that renders the entire class pretty much useless (any item with freedom)

Personally I think the Dev nerf should be made into the new and improved Death attack that seems -much- more fitting.


If you disagree or agree with anything I said please drop me a line via pm flame is always welcome but I will hate you with a forever burning desire.

love you all sometimes...

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If you want dc's don't rp with me.

PnP delayed blast fireball does 1d8/level, no cap. It would be too much with empower feat, when used as a level 30 mage. But I agree that some nuke spells could use a bit of polishing.

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With GS's abuse uses down, there's likely to be a good amount of attention paid to lesser-known Mage spells to bring them up to par a bit. At least, that's the attitude I believe we held when the changes were being discussed ages ago.

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Mostly Retired

This is partially true. When you nerf spells and things, usually what happens is that casters move down to the next best thing. From personal experience, I say it rarely results in more experimenting, just "Plan B's" become "Plan A's".

Still seeing this a tip of the iceberg. Plenty of stuff left to be fiddled with, I'd imagine, and with the big boys out of the way, progress can continue.

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Retired

Heh.. they better go straight to base of that iceberg.. and reduce level limit to 3... no more whining.

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We believe only what we want to believe.

Indeed. Nerfing is easy to overdo.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

That was my suggestion for it as well. The reason being, if you can beat a target's Fort roll with a lv 6 spell, you could have, and should have just casted Wail and saved yourself the time. It's been made a novelty spell now, virtually.

It's a very tricky thing, nerfing and changing things with spells, I think we all realize. Nerfing one thing just leads to a migration to the next best thing. Which may after it be seen as overused/unfair, and it may start again. Not saying that's what it is, the changes haven't been in long enough to see, but it's a possibility.

I forsee an increase in demand for purge invisibility and improved invisibility gear...

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

Why bother? Lanterns of Invis Purging are buyable at char creation. Faded Balls are in the lowest loot bin along with Rings of Eyes. Bracers of Seeing aren't hard to find at all.

Unless you're going against someone who doesn't know crap about using resources, for the most part, the era of reliably buffing before battle is over. I'm not saying that's good, bad, or indifferent, but it does create a hell of a predicament for anyone that doesn't walk around in the Sunday's best at all times.

Just prepare to see anyone who has spells with all of them on when passing through Amia Forest. Clerics, Mages, and Bards will be spottable from a 2 mile radius.

And totally easy to undo, if its shown to be too much.



Then you're just not scary enough.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

Something I was hesitant to suggest before this, but now it may actually be needed is a one-shot, partial-counter to Mords via the Spell Mantle series.

My thought was this: Dispels and Mordenkainen's become susceptible to Spell Mantle with the caveat of having a double spell level value. In other words, Mordenkainen's would be blocked by Spell Mantle, but it would have a Spell Level of "18" for calculation.

In that respect, it would give one "freebie" against Mords in most cases, but after that, you're on your own. It's not like the SOB 29melee/1rogue isn't going to have multiple scrolls to throw at your ass anyway.

*shrug* It's just a thought, I am not certain how it would actually play out yet. Interested to see comments.

No.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

I fail to see how in the world of evasion is everywhere/tumbledumped/umd dumped world how it'd be an issue.

I. Want. The. Nukes. To. Hurt.

An empowered delayed blast is a level 9 slot. It should be able to decimate an entire spawn with one spell. ..That and probably fry your familiar, and your summon, and possibly yourself in the process, but .. Hey! Learn to aim.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.