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IronAngel wrote:

I do think that you should generally post nothing but the explanation for the lock when you close a topic. Getting the last word in is bad taste, if rarely malicious.

To avoid unnecessary misunderstandings that result from locking of threads, I would like to suggest adopting the MoshingChris Standard of thread locking.

MoshingChris wrote:

Locked this topic because it went nowhere fast.

Announcement of lock followed by the reason for lock.
The lock should be respected and moderators should not post to get in a last word.

Good suggestion Prince.

I encourage this, Since posting after a topic was locked and/or locking without a reason, Is disrespectful.
And a player whom feels bullied/Mocked/Frowned upon is quick to make accusations / Flame / Insult / Be generally sad or angry.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Good suggestion Prince.

I encourage this, Since posting after a topic was locked and/or locking without a reason, Is disrespectful.
And a player whom feels bullied/Mocked/Frowned upon is quick to make accusations / Flame / Insult / Be generally sad or angry.

exactly, and we start to hate dm's.

My Point exactly.
Yet i was a bit more subtle.

I am against locks in general. They're justified when:
1. The topic is about a specific issue that has been resolved or become obsolete.
2. The topic itself is against forum rules.
3. The topic is exceptionally determinal to morale or Amia's image.

- The discussion going widly off-topic is not a good reason. Order the off-topic to stop or split topic if you're feeling generous.
- Indivudal posters breaking forum CoC is not a good reason. Warn and punish those individuals with forum bans.
- The perceived "stupidity" or "pointlessness" of a topic is not a good reason. Nobody should get to be the judge of that. Let it die on its own, and ignore it until then.

A topic doesn't have to "go anywhere" in order to remain open. Maybe you're right, but enforcing that opinion ruffles feathers unnecessarily when no harm's being done. But maybe you're wrong, and you just don't see the upcoming enlightenment the topic is about to produce.

Banal spam in Off Topic (in General, that should be a bannable offence if you persist) and Improving Amia topics are an exception, the latter because the purpose of the forum requires efficiency and clarity in practice.

That said, Amian moderation/lock policies are very good in this regard. There are some unjustified calls, but they're relatively rare and locked topics have always been reopened when I've asked nicely with good reasonng.

Sometimes in IA I will make another post in a locked topic to extrapolate the reason we are not doing or looking at something. Theres a good reason for that because the more information I give out the less likely the topic is to come up again within five minutes.

The only exception was when I locked the Bug: Ferocity Rage topic yesterday and brainfarted not giving a reason.

My question is why are we repeating this when this topic is already been discussed already in other threads that are recent? >< PM anyone?

Ravenousfaerie wrote:

My question is why are we repeating this when this topic is already been discussed already in other threads that are recent? >< PM anyone?

Other recent threads? Links then perhaps a mod could merge them?

I have to admit this is and has been one of my buttons since I first came here, sometimes threads go overboard, but the ones suggesting idea's that get locked sort of dead stop you from contributing, and opening another thread on the same topic is...well I wouldn't do it, borders on the same aspect of the posts some people make with alts after a ban, (the ones that clog general discussion because they make like three threads with a grand total of 'expletive' in the content.)

that said if there is a reason given, or its entirely a spam fest then I can understand. I would personally prefer deleting a few spam posts over locking so that possible good idea's can be contributed for those that missed the thread due to timezones, or whatever.

This thread should -so- be locked without reason. I would be highly amused.

There are some times where locks need to be done, and things left unsaid, because saying anything would escalate the situation.

I agree with Iron, and I think the DM team should follow these principles, as they in my opinion are reasonable and fair. Most do most of the time. However, the player can always PM the DM and reason why the thread should be unlocked again. Of course this may not be obvious to all and it should be made clear to the playerbase, that gods err too.

And often times the DM puts in the last word because things have been left skewered by the user they where arguing with. If someone does a search later, finds that thread, and see's the last post was by a user who actually has whatever was being argued about wrong, then they get the wrong idea. Thus the DM needs to get the last word in, as it's what the DM decided.

And quite frankely, in anything but Off Topic, the DM's word is generally the final word.

That's a rather cynic approach. Makes the DM team sound very immature, when in fact a good measure of maturity and unbiased service to the playerbase are probably two of the chief conditions in becoming a DM.

I'm not saying that cases like that are nonexistant, only that you shouldn't accuse the group of it happening often, if you provide us with nothing to back up your claim.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

That's a rather cynic approach. Makes the DM team sound very immature, when in fact a good measure of maturity and unbiased service to the playerbase are probably two of the chief conditions in becoming a DM.

I'm not saying that cases like that are nonexistant, only that you shouldn't accuse the group of it happening often, if you provide us with nothing to back up your claim.

Um, what claim? back up that the DM's word is the final word? Well unless the player is suddenly in charge of confirming requests and controlling the world of Amia, then it's pretty obvious the DM's word is the last word. They are also the forums moderators, and its up to them how forum conduct goes down.

As for the other part. Go to Improving Amia. Most of the threads there usually need a last word in after the lock to clear things up.

I don't really have anything against the DM's locking your thread with the last word, I don't even think it's anything worth to discuss imo. But the majority seems to dislike it, so I don't want to turn against you all in this matter.

Can you be more neutral?

Yes, 0,4 points more neutral according to my homemade scale. ^.~

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Um, what claim?

I readfail. Sorry, dude. Mixed it up with something within the lines of "DM locks thread because his/her point was made insensate."

Main reason DM's have a last word is that they either don't notice the "lock" or that they were posting while the lock was put on the thread. A DM post goes through in that case.

I do add something after a lock myself now and then, but that's most often a comment on the tone of the thread (or the reason why it got locked) and not a contribution to the argument itself. I can imagine that a "we discussed this and this is the verdict" type of conclusion is also fine, even if the thread isn't reopened.

I do agree that a "nah nah nah, I got the last word" type of post would be a bit sad, but I doubt those are the norm.

Dev Disco wrote:

Main reason DM's have a last word is that they either don't notice the "lock" or that they were posting while the lock was put on the thread. A DM post goes through in that case.

I do add something after a lock myself now and then, but that's most often a comment on the tone of the thread (or the reason why it got locked) and not a contribution to the argument itself. I can imagine that a "we discussed this and this is the verdict" type of conclusion is also fine, even if the thread isn't reopened.

I do agree that a "nah nah nah, I got the last word" type of post would be a bit sad, but I doubt those are the norm.

That would be pretty bloody funny though.

but extremely immature

All I have to say about this is that I've noticed when DM's lock with a "final word" it is more likely for the OP or someone else to start another topic just continuing it later. In that respect, it's in the DMs' best interest just to be frank about the matter.

As well, having a topic locked, but DM's still post multiple times on it after it is locked kinda comes off as...well not nice. It sorta says "we're the only ones with anything worth saying on this topic", even though I hope 98% of the times, it's not that. Just if it's an open topic, it's an open topic. If it's locked, it's locked. If it's locked and a DM wants to say something that was not covered in the last one, post a new thread about it. Same way anyone else would have to.

That being said, I've never found either a hugely important issue.

Dark Immolation wrote:

All I have to say about this is that I've noticed when DM's lock with a "final word" it is more likely for the OP or someone else to start another topic just continuing it later. In that respect, it's in the DMs' best interest just to be frank about the matter.

Maybe 'circumventing moderation' could be added as a "do not" in the rules if this is too much of an issue.

Mind that sometimes stuff simply isn't up to discussion. A "this is how we do it" concluding remark doesn't really need a new thread in that case, I think.

Dev Disco wrote:

Mind that sometimes stuff simply isn't up to discussion. A "this is how we do it" concluding remark doesn't really need a new thread in that case, I think.

That coincides with a "Explanation for closure" in my book. It's fine for a DM to come in and say "Sorry guys, neat/interesting idea, but that's just not what we do on Amia. PM me if you'd like a longer explanation. Locked because of infeasibility." That's fine.

It's when a DM continues to debate a point after the thread's been locked to everyone else that it becomes an issue.

Like I said, it's good just to be frank when locking a thread.

Is this really an issue? Are there really so many negative instances of thread locking? I know I've been here and gone, but I can't imagine this becoming such a widespread problem that can't be resolved through a few PMs.

Dark Immolation wrote:

That being said, I've never found either a hugely important issue.

Either.

Just speaking in the few instances it has happened.

Sweet crap...the team can't catch a break lately.

The only time recently I've seen mod posts was after I locked a topic and was ninja posted by 3 people afterwards. I explained it was an accident. This normally doesn't happen and certainly does not need a proposal, as we're well aware of how it looks and we avoid it at all costs.

Dwagin wrote:

This thread should -so- be locked without reason. I would be highly amused.

Lmao, any DM that did that, and quoted this:

Dev Disco wrote:

"nah nah nah, I got the last word"

Would officially be my favorite DM ever, to the point I'd feel I'd have to post it in MLIA...

Edit: Crap, hit enter before I could actually help the OP >.>

Anyway, Truly I almost never seen this done with little to no explanation, unless of course there was mass DM bashing, which:

Lally wrote:

Sweet crap...the team can't catch a break lately.

The only time recently I've seen mod posts was after I locked a topic and was ninja posted by 3 people afterwards. I explained it was an accident. This normally doesn't happen and certainly does not need a proposal, as we're well aware of how it looks and we avoid it at all costs.

Has been alot lightly. And also why I think this topic has arisen. But meh.

Personally as long as an adequate reason, even "This is going nowhere fast", is given, i see no problem with it. Anything else can be taken up in PMs.

Now, if you will excuse me, I feel I may have a giant brown spot growing on my nose, and im gonna go wash it off before someone can point it out and rub my face in it...

Lally wrote:

Sweet crap...the team can't catch a break lately.

Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Lally?

You know we love you guys.

The Cobbit wrote:

Is this really an issue? Are there really so many negative instances of thread locking?

It's not a pressing issue, but considering there are other users who agree that things can be done better, it might be worth looking at. Sometimes you do not need an overwhelming majority to make a change when a hazard has been identified.

If it can reduce the number of users who feel "bullied/Mocked/Frowned upon is quick to make accusations / Flame / Insult / Be generally sad or angry", and reduce a number of 2 cent threads, how is that a bad thing?

No one's integrity is being compromised here. It's a request to adopt a more neutral stance in moderating.
If possible, the moderator locking the thread should be a neutral party, not be involved in the ongoing argument.

Honestly I'm sick of all the crap people are posting in respct to the dev's, Dm's, and mods.

It reeks of lack of appreciation, escpecially when it is stated in a rather disrespectful or just plain rude tone.

I'm tired of seeing the arguments between bitter playrs(some on these forums don't even f@cking play anymore!), and Dms/Devs/Mods.

Could you guys seriously just drop it already.

I mean damn even I had small slight issues with them but damn...do as Lally says and please cut'em a damn break already!

No one's made any derogatory statements towards DMs, man/woman.

Just something that happens sometime. The fact that we even care to discuss whether or not its even is an issue instead of accusing anyone shows at least some respect for them, in this thread at least.

boobookittyscrew wrote:

Honestly I'm sick of all the crap people are posting in respct to the dev's, Dm's, and mods.

It reeks of lack of appreciation, escpecially when it is stated in a rather disrespectful or just plain rude tone.

I'm tired of seeing the arguments between bitter playrs(some on these forums don't even f@cking play anymore!), and Dms/Devs/Mods.

Could you guys seriously just drop it already.

I mean damn even I had small slight issues with them but damn...do as Lally says and please cut'em a damn break already!

Log off the computer, go lay down for a few hours, take a mini vacation from amia *nod* (meaning that sincerely rather than being an ass)

It is similar to politics, an issue arises, it is presented then discussed. Yes there will be some bad apples in the mix but that can never be avoided. All that anyone can do, is read over the posts of people who genuinely want to help and aren't going crazy about it, consider it and then choose how to act accordingly based upon ones own preferances.

This thread does not have a good reason to exist. There are not enough instances of it to justify this thread, and honestly, I believe this is just a certain group of players riding the band wagon from the forum behaviour thread to get in a few pot shots over small grudges they never let go.

Cut it out. If you've got an issue with how DM's are doing things, spam Nekh. Its her job.

Wouldn't say spam, I'd say send a respectful message explaining your side.

I think everyone's taking this thread a little too serious.

All that's been said is "Yeah, it sucks when that happens. Meh, doesn't happen a lot, but still, just some things to keep in mind if it does again."

I think the message has been delivered. Next?

it's not that we're taking it serious....just tired of seeing all the complaints about the team swarm in their face...

The Mods most likely have to go through every single post, check it to see if it's kosher, respond, wait for response, and then lock or re-respond.

People make it seem like it's so easily done to do all this and we all want our posts to be read, and our PMs and we want responses.

I don' mean to be rude but this thread is now yet nother distraction they must read, re-read, respond to, watch for flames and trolls....and you get the picture.

Please give this thread the poetic justice it deserves and well....lock it.

Dark Immolation wrote:

No one's made any derogatory statements towards DMs, man/woman.

Just something that happens sometime. The fact that we even care to discuss whether or not its even is an issue instead of accusing anyone shows at least some respect for them, in this thread at least.

Indeed, this is a suggestion thread. The tone should be neutral and civil.
IronAngel has brought up some very good points in that manner.
I'm sorry some of you feel the need to be emotional about this.

We get it though. We get it. It's not something that happens intentionally, and it's not something that we have a team policy of doing, and it's not something we strive to do, and it's not a widespread issue.

When you classify what "we" should do as a team, you're talking to a whole team who does precisely what you think we should do...most of the time..already.

When it does happen in individual cases, I'd rather players speak directly to the team instead of making forum threads or adding to forum threads. Didi mentioned it looked tacky, and it absolutely did look tacky, and then I explained what happened, and it was cool. You see?

You don't have to make a thread about what you think the DM's should do or how we should act. I'm putting this out there, but I'd be perfectly fine with any suggestions like this ending up in my inbox so the team can directly take a look at the issue and see if it needs addressing, instead of having to wade through 39 posts.

I always find it funny how halfway a thread like this one players start claiming that DMs and Devs are insulted and mistreated by other players. I don't see any staffmember exploding here or showing annoyance, however. Kinda sets a negative atmosphere, though. Nobody seems bothered a lot, why make a fuss out of nothing?

Yes, Disco's right. We're accustomed to animal abuse, and while we pity the horse, we don't hang its dead weight from our necks.

I agree, I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to anger the entire dev team, just trying to have a nice conversation about locked threads, and why perhaps some in the past could have remained open a little longer, and counter arguments to that.

emotion doesn't convey through text (well it kind of does but not very clearly.)

I haven't got much else to add other than I agree with this

Quote:

If it can reduce the number of users who feel "bullied/Mocked/Frowned upon is quick to make accusations / Flame / Insult / Be generally sad or angry", and reduce a number of 2 cent threads, how is that a bad thing?

however I can't complain since the last time I personally could relate to the above statement I stopped posting in the section which always gets locked far to early (improving amia.) and to be fair the threads that get locks mostly, have reason to it. mostly. I would prefer not to go into further detail, because frankly its not worth it, past issue, no relevance here.

your all doing a fine job now, and now is what matters.

Glyph wrote:

I agree, I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to anger the entire dev team, just trying to have a nice conversation about locked threads, and why perhaps some in the past could have remained open a little longer, and counter arguments to that.

Correct and I think it's good to work towards an open and more mature user base, where any debate can be conducted with minimal aggression. Mods have posted and given us good insight about their practices and views regarding this, which leads to more understanding; ultimately a good thing.

MoshingChris wrote:

Sometimes in IA I will make another post in a locked topic to extrapolate the reason we are not doing or looking at something. Theres a good reason for that because the more information I give out the less likely the topic is to come up again within five minutes.

Dev Disco wrote:

I do add something after a lock myself now and then, but that's most often a comment on the tone of the thread (or the reason why it got locked) and not a contribution to the argument itself. I can imagine that a "we discussed this and this is the verdict" type of conclusion is also fine, even if the thread isn't reopened.

I like you, Lally. Has the point of this thread not been reached yet?

Dev Disco wrote:

I always find it funny how halfway a thread like this one players start claiming that DMs and Devs are insulted and mistreated by other players.

It's because they have DC's to burn and they're sucking up for a massive request or rebuild, don'tcha know.

Last edited by Dwagin on Sat, Jun 04 2011, 1:59 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Yossarin wrote:

Yes, Disco's right. We're accustomed to animal abuse, and while we pity the horse, we don't hang its dead weight from our necks.

Animals are awesome.

Dwagin wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Yes, Disco's right. We're accustomed to animal abuse, and while we pity the horse, we don't hang its dead weight from our necks.

Animals are awesome. For instance, I love this Horse.

or this horsey!

Lally wrote:

It's not something that happens intentionally

Accidents do happen and in another recent case, it resulted in an upset user and a mod who had to do damage control. This is a citation of an example, nothing more, nothing less.
I would also like to request users who do not agree to this discussion to refrain from spamming in an effort to get it locked.

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