AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Herra Tutteri wrote:

Man, you're getting pwnzorzed here. Embrace it that goodies will kill baddies when seen, instead of trying to reason with them. That's because My Little Pony -setting doesn't really work even here in Amia when it comes down to good character vs. obviously evil character in the wilds. I had to admit that gay people make a thousand times better parents than straight people, and now I'm living in a more happy world. You should, too!

Sorry, did you just use a debate about a make-believe setting and how a class should behave to bring up a 20th century issue? One word for you in this setting to prove gender orientation is not as big an issue as alignment/class tasks in Forgotten Realms: Sunite.

At the core of your post you only prove my point. Can't disagree that that is how it functions at present. I am attempting to challenge paladins to play the class to what it reads as.

Did you really just use the term, " pwnzorzed " in a point-counterpoint debate? I weep for the English language and for English teachers everywhere that debate and adjectives are no longer taught.

You missed what he was trying to say by a mile.

Enlighten me then? My little pony arguments have been dismissed as there has yet to be a rebutle to my last post on them.

DustSpray101 wrote:

Isn't that your job as a paladin? Turn the grim setting into rainbows and unicorns so that every kid looks up to you with awe?

May be you are confused with the duty of black guards and fallen paladins to take rainbow sprite and my little pony, toss them into a fire and create nightmares.

I have no idea what you are saying. I see no correlation between the archetype of a paladin and being a carebear.

Silvarus wrote:

I have no idea what you are saying. I see no correlation between the archetype of a paladin and being a carebear.

Though varying Paladins have different outlooks due to their deity code, by in large they should be fighting or acting for a better tommorrow, to help defend those in need and the like.

Grymia wrote:

Silvarus wrote:

I have no idea what you are saying. I see no correlation between the archetype of a paladin and being a carebear.

Though varying Paladins have different outlooks due to their deity code, by in large they should be fighting or acting for a better tommorrow, to help defend those in need and the like.

Definitely, but this does not mean being NG or CG. You can fight for the greater good with honour and glory without abandoning the strict and stiff lawfulness.

Who said anything about a paladin's ability to summon cloud mobile mounts and use the Carebear Stare?

Please read the thread once more Silv. Grymia sums it up rather well. I ask for words then Action with a slight edge of playing to the class which is not much to ask for on a Role Play server. It is a call against the growing norm of relying on mechanics of one's build first via Action that bypasses words and vague attempts at playing the class of paladin.
Lawful nice is not always required, but lawful good is.
What is it you believe I have been debating?

((Which one of the Kellie Paladins uses better bleach to hide the bloodstains on the immaculately white parts of their tabards? If that is the case, it is Joacim, hands down, but that is not the topic now is it?))

I suppose we all minsuderstand what the others are really wanting to see in RP.

Grymia wrote:

Silvarus wrote:

I have no idea what you are saying. I see no correlation between the archetype of a paladin and being a carebear.

Though varying Paladins have different outlooks due to their deity code, by in large they should be fighting or acting for a better tommorrow, to help defend those in need and the like.

Crushing a demon's skull could be fighting for a better tomorrow? We all know devils and demons are arses. Even the ones that claim to have higher level of intelligence and a little less of aggression.

I suppose a paladin could try to help a kid who's just killed his friend with a stone to the "right" path and make amends by speaking with him and helping him see the joy of the wide world, but I doubt he'd do the same to a demon, devil, undead, known Banite, Velsharan, Cyricist etc. Most likely they're too mad or nasty to change and it's easier and much safer to draw a blade and slice and dice them.

DustSpray101 wrote:

Who said anything about a paladin's ability to summon cloud mobile mounts and use the Carebear Stare?

Please read the thread once more Silv. Grymia sums it up rather well. I ask for words then Action with a slight edge of playing to the class which is not much to ask for on a Role Play server. It is a call against the growing norm of relying on mechanics of one's build first via Action that bypasses words and vague attempts at playing the class of paladin.
Lawful nice is not always required, but lawful good is.
What is it you believe I have been debating?

((Which one of the Kellie Paladins uses better bleach to hide the bloodstains on the immaculately white parts of their tabards? If that is the case, it is Joacim, hands down, but that is not the topic now is it?))

so...your saying that combat isnt rp?...and dont call peoples rp Vauge, just because you dissagrea, i tried lecturing people on rp, and it just pissed them off, some people rp paladins as the sword of their god, get over it, you have no qualifications that makes you a expert in paladin rp, got a problem with other peoples rp, make a paladin and show them how you see it, but i promise you i wont change my rp because you think my interpetation of what a paladin is.
Accept that some view the world of the immense darkness that faerun has as a grim world and rp's thier paladins abit more bloodied than others not everyone thinks that combat is not a proper responce in rp, its part of the rp, and if you breake the devine laws that the paladin was sworn to protect...expect trouble, some will speak first some will slay you(within pvp rules), but dont expect to be padded on the back while doing immense evil and dont expect a peacefull solution just because you start to argue nor to be let of the hook alive.

A violent responce is still rp
*edited*

No no, you misunderstood. I have never once said pvp is not RP nor that it is not a natural occurrence. What I have said is that pvp lacking the sometimes exhausting Role play before hand, is bad form for paladins as they took oaths. Random acts of kindness befit them as opposed to random acts of violence. Please reread the thread instead of arguing for the sake of it.

I am happy to reiterate things if you wish me to. Furthermore, I am sorry if you view this post as an affront to your style of RP. I am not demanding people play just this way and no other. What I am advocating is depicting the depth of ones character before resorting to violence and requesting people unfamiliar with the class and setting put forth the effort to learn it as it will help with the overall view of not only their character, but to the faction they claim to represent as a bastion of virtue as well.

DustSpray101 wrote:

No no, you misunderstood. I have never once said pvp is not RP nor that it is not a natural occurrence. What I have said is that pvp lacking the sometimes exhausting Role play before hand, is bad form for paladins as they took oaths. Random acts of kindness befit them as opposed to random acts of violence. Please reread the thread instead of arguing for the sake of it.

I am happy to reiterate things if you wish me to. Furthermore, I am sorry if you view this post as an affront to your style of RP. I am not demanding people play just this way and no other. What I am advocating is depicting the depth of ones character before resorting to violence and requesting people unfamiliar with the class and setting put forth the effort to learn it as it will help with the overall view of not only their character, but to the faction they claim to represent as a bastion of virtue as well.

and thats fine, but i dont agree with your views, especially when you call some peoples attempts at playing a paladin "vauge" stay out of dm buisness they got it covered, as for showing "depth" well honerstly, thats not up to you its up to people who play thier chars, doingt dark deeds stops pretty much all talking for me, when i played my paladin, because she only believed that the darkest of people (clergy of dark gods, demonologist and necromancers) could be saved in death, you dissagrea with taht fine, but dont expect anything, people who are paladins might not want to speak with someone who summons undead or demons, and they are in thier full right to just purge them.
Not you nor I should change that, if you want to talk fine, if you dont just as fine, neither form of rp is worth more.

When you say its "lacking exhausting rp" well your wrong again, its just as valid as fighting, the oaths actually leave alot of options for slaying such evil creatures on sight..in some players eyes, a demonolog is just as bad as the demon he summons, and thus must be smited before thier taint mark the world futher, rp isnt limited with how much chatting its involved its about the motives behind, dont try and force anything on anyone, it wont work, accept some smite and some talk...both are equally good rp, if with the proper basis in the chars oppion.

some people will just be slain, accept that, cause it wont change, nor should it, if you want to talk with paladins, dont do evil stuff around them, it is just stupid to expect anything but a sword to the skull. Some of us dont barter and talk with evil people, because, frankly our chars dont care about thier souls, but the souls we do care about are the ones of the ones they have slain, yes it borderlines vengence, but in the hands of a well played paladin, vengence is devine justice.
And that is perfectly acceptable paladin rp!

*Edited*

Your right to disagree is noted, but I have yet to step on DM toes here. Your accusations are baseless and as you seem to be angry at the moment, I ask you to pause a moment to collect yourself before making remarks as to my personal character.

I am advocating this as a veteran of DnD and this setting. I am also a concerned player as I see more and more paladins digressing into mindless smite-happy behavior. It is unfounded and I would gladly begin screen capturing and sending them to DMs when I see it occur if I thought this to be a fruitless debate and that such would be a better outcome. DMs should not be made to hold our hands, but if the maturity is lacking to see this post as what it is, then I suppose they would have to. This saddens me as such would be a step back from the direction the Great Chicken wishes for this server to go in.

Simply put, DMs are not always on nor should they have to deal with this sort of thing when we as players should take as much pride in our community and challenging it to become better as we do in our own characters and challenging ourselves to improve our own RP. Accept it for what it is and come to terms with it.

it is not mindless, its in perfect sync with a perfectly valid oppion of how a paladin should be played.

When a shiny paladin walks up and attacks somebody before so much as emoting publically, and then explains what he did after the fact, it comes across as mindless. That the thought to kill came before the reasoning behind the kill. It may not be the intention, but it shines paladins in a light they should endeavor to avoid. Like the color red to an angry bull, so it is with green-black and purple-black color combinations to a number of paladins. It is a sad fact of Amia at present which I am endeavoring to challenge change in.

DustSpray101 wrote:

When a shiny paladin walks up and attacks somebody before so much as emoting publically, and then explains what he did after the fact, it comes across as mindless. That the thought to kill came before the reasoning behind the kill. It may not be the intention, but it shines paladins in a light they should endeavor to avoid. Like the color red to an angry bull, so it is with green-black and purple-black color combinations to a number of paladins. It is a sad fact of Amia at present which I am endeavoring to challenge change in.

Now you are talking about poor behiaviour in initiating PvP, not how paladins should be played.

This is in no way spesific to how paladins are or should be played. It is a general failure in good OOC behiaviour when entering hostilities.

Its just breaking PvP rules (RP, IC out) like Silvarus said, thats a player problem not a paladin-RP problem.

indeed.

If they breake server rules thats another matter

Herra Tutteri wrote:

Grymia wrote:

Silvarus wrote:

I have no idea what you are saying. I see no correlation between the archetype of a paladin and being a carebear.

Though varying Paladins have different outlooks due to their deity code, by in large they should be fighting or acting for a better tommorrow, to help defend those in need and the like.

Crushing a demon's skull could be fighting for a better tomorrow? We all know devils and demons are arses. Even the ones that claim to have higher level of intelligence and a little less of aggression.

I suppose a paladin could try to help a kid who's just killed his friend with a stone to the "right" path and make amends by speaking with him and helping him see the joy of the wide world, but I doubt he'd do the same to a demon, devil, undead, known Banite, Velsharan, Cyricist etc. Most likely they're too mad or nasty to change and it's easier and much safer to draw a blade and slice and dice them.

Quite true.

Demon, Devil, Undead = Likely, insta bye bye.

Banite , Velsharan, Cyricist = Based on their actions and honest readiness to repent.

Agreed. *to G Man*

To those thinking this was about server rules being broken: Not at all. Some people have waived their rights and invite the attacks ((see waivers post)). RP beyond the mechanics should still be initiated however. Such is a problem with the paladin RP if they are initiating welcome combat with out so much as a "For your crimes!" etc. Battle cry or some such.

Otherwise, I'm sorry guys, but I will not jump on the wagon and assume my fellow players are breaking rules or being a complete moron flat out. The best in people is what I am looking for and hoping to nurture with constructive criticism and observation, sorry to clash with any pre-conceived notions that commenting on RP and debating possible ways to improve it applies only to evil or neutral characters.

DustSpray101 wrote:

Agreed. *to G Man*

To those thinking this was about server rules being broken: Not at all. Some people have waived their rights and invite the attacks ((see waivers post)). RP beyond the mechanics should still be initiated however. Such is a problem with the paladin RP if they are initiating welcome combat with out so much as a "For your crimes!" etc. Battle cry or some such.

Otherwise, I'm sorry guys, but I will not jump on the wagon and assume my fellow players are breaking rules or being a complete moron flat out. The best in people is what I am looking for and hoping to nurture with constructive criticism and observation, sorry to clash with any pre-conceived notions that commenting on RP and debating possible ways to improve it applies only to evil or neutral characters.

You are looking for the best in people by accusing us of all kinds of bad things? You are speaking of rulebreaking or at least very bad OOC behiaviour, not a fundamental problem in how we play our characters.

Thats why I think that waiver thing is bollocks, but still, if those chars getting attacked have waived their right to back down from PvP, and to not have any indication of an attack beforehand, what are you really complaining about? You can apply that to any good-evil / evil-good / whatever scenario. If you see 5 Palemasters jumping on Paladins the other way around, you see a problem how PMs are played on Amia?

Entirely player issues, not RP.

"You are looking for the best in people by accusing us of all kinds of bad things?" I expect better out of the overwhelming populace of paladins than has been given. Please, put more thought behind this argument. While I have outlined things a paladin can do to improve themselves, you feel attacked and ergo miss the criticism as being constructive and rather obstructive. Read the thread. It conveys disappointment in not having paladins live up to their hype in RP situations and offers constructive ways for them to do so.

"You are speaking of rulebreaking or at least very bad OOC behiaviour, not a fundamental problem in how we play our characters." not at all. Did you miss my recent post and the context of it within the greater thread? I have no qualms with people teaming up, good or evil, and doing good/evil things. As a paladin, however, more is expected out of you than an evil necromancer simply summoning an undead. It is a fact of the class that Paladins are to be both mighty smiter and fluffy pony prince come to save the day.

"If you see 5 Palemasters jumping on Paladins the other way around, you see a problem how PMs are played on Amia?

Entirely player issues, not RP."

As shown above. It is a lack of RP involved outside of "Paladin A just murdered a guy wearing black next to the rock in Amia Forest!" " oh wait, its cool everyone, Paladin A says the dude in black he killed was a necromancer" that I find disappointing and am challenging paladin players to change.

Otherwise... Dang, close but far off with that last comment. You are right though! It is player opinion and offering of constructive criticism to improve it. Feel free to ignore it or contribute in a positive fashion. Post is on bringing about positive change in RP. Feel free to contribute at any time.

DustSpray101 wrote:

"You are looking for the best in people by accusing us of all kinds of bad things?" I expect better out of the overwhelming populace of paladins than has been given. Please, put more thought behind this argument. While I have outlined things a paladin can do to improve themselves, you feel attacked and ergo miss the criticism as being constructive and rather obstructive. Read the thread. It conveys disappointment in not having paladins live up to their hype in RP situations and offers constructive ways for them to do so.

"You are speaking of rulebreaking or at least very bad OOC behiaviour, not a fundamental problem in how we play our characters." not at all. Did you miss my recent post and the context of it within the greater thread? I have no qualms with people teaming up, good or evil, and doing good/evil things. As a paladin, however, more is expected out of you than an evil necromancer simply summoning an undead. It is a fact of the class that Paladins are to be both mighty smiter and fluffy pony prince come to save the day.

"If you see 5 Palemasters jumping on Paladins the other way around, you see a problem how PMs are played on Amia?

Entirely player issues, not RP."

As shown above. It is a lack of RP involved outside of "Paladin A just murdered a guy wearing black next to the rock in Amia Forest!" " oh wait, its cool everyone, Paladin A says the dude in black he killed was a necromancer" that I find disappointing and am challenging paladin players to change.

Otherwise... Dang, close but far off with that last comment. You are right though! It is player opinion and offering of constructive criticism to improve it. Feel free to ignore it or contribute in a positive fashion. Post is on bringing about positive change in RP. Feel free to contribute at any time.

Bull, you arnt trying to change rp, your trying to force rp behavior, dont do that, handle it ic if you have a problem.
And that isnt constructive criticism, its a person trying to force the world to change to fit his narrow view of what a paladin is, instead of giving some room for differences.

People have different views of what a paladin is...live with it, if you think someone does something wrong..go bother them ic not oocly bitching (politely, but still bitching) about how bad people rp paladins...

DustSpray101 wrote:

"You are looking for the best in people by accusing us of all kinds of bad things?" I expect better out of the overwhelming populace of paladins than has been given.

It's not the job of a paladin to look for the best in people. What you're thinking of is a cleric. You seem to be under the impression that a paladin is just a cleric with better melee stats... this is simply not true. A paladin is a tool designed for a very specific job: Destroy Enemies. When a god wants someone to "look for the best in people," she calls a cleric. When a god wants someone to Smite the everloving bejeebers out of her enemies, she calls a paladin.

Not always, Lizzie.

Yes, by in large the Clerics are the more Mystical and the more contemplative but Paladins aren't just big dumb Kettle-headed assault weapons of the Divine.

They are commonly a god's Weapon or Shield, in that they are primarily sent to engage Martially but the many forms of Paladin, just like the many forms of Rogue exist.

Back to the issue my honourable friend posted:-

Personally if my paladin sees a wraith the wraith is going down.

Undead not tolerated, Demons not tolerated, Devils not tolerated.

If he knows it is your wraith you will be smited for being evil and putting the fear in the hearts of common folk etc. etc. Unless you offer to repent for your crimes. Simple really

As for the rest of this topic i welcome people to rp with the triadic knights or my paladin azeriel, i simply make sure all pvp is backed up with rp and will make ic sense then.

Kraniumbrud wrote:

Bull, you arnt trying to change rp, your trying to force rp behavior, dont do that, handle it ic if you have a problem.
And that isnt constructive criticism, its a person trying to force the world to change to fit his narrow view of what a paladin is, instead of giving some room for differences.

People have different views of what a paladin is...live with it, if you think someone does something wrong..go bother them ic not oocly bitching (politely, but still bitching) about how bad people rp paladins...

I have dealt with and put up with people doing these things in game. Do you believe my opinions unfounded? That I am simply causing a rukus because of some freudian reasoning? Can I not express these things on the forum in the form of a constructive post? DMs have not chimed in saying I have broken a rule somewhere in any of this so it would seem that it is left to us to remain mature and civilly discuss a constructive potential addition to people's portrayal of paladins within the setting of Forgotten Realms.

I'm not about to put a gun to anyones head and demand they change or stoop to anything that would dictate it must be this way or no way at all. Such would be ridiculous as I am sure you can agree. It is not demanding anything more than an open mind, a menial command of the English language, and working eyes with which to read the words posted.

I invite you to take part in this debate/conversation once you come to terms with what this sparked conversation is aimed at. Furthermore, I welcome you to do better unless you truly believe that everything is perfect and discount any one else's right to believe otherwise and offer constructive opinions and observations in a public fashion to the benefit of the Amian player community.

As I stated, you can feel free to ignore the thread if you fear it too restricting and narrow, but don't bring down what should be a positive atmosphere with insults, insinuations, and useless attacks in what can be a good thread as to improving the RP from the paladin player base.

DustSpray101 wrote:

Kraniumbrud wrote:

Bull, you arnt trying to change rp, your trying to force rp behavior, dont do that, handle it ic if you have a problem.
And that isnt constructive criticism, its a person trying to force the world to change to fit his narrow view of what a paladin is, instead of giving some room for differences.

People have different views of what a paladin is...live with it, if you think someone does something wrong..go bother them ic not oocly bitching (politely, but still bitching) about how bad people rp paladins...

I have dealt with and put up with people doing these things in game. Do you believe my opinions unfounded? That I am simply causing a rukus because of some freudian reasoning? Can I not express these things on the forum in the form of a constructive post? DMs have not chimed in saying I have broken a rule somewhere in any of this so it would seem that it is left to us to remain mature and civilly discuss a constructive potential addition to people's portrayal of paladins within the setting of Forgotten Realms.

I'm not about to put a gun to anyones head and demand they change or stoop to anything that would dictate it must be this way or no way at all. Such would be ridiculous as I am sure you can agree. It is not demanding anything more than an open mind, a menial command of the English language, and working eyes with which to read the words posted.

I invite you to take part in this debate/conversation once you come to terms with what this sparked conversation is aimed at. Furthermore, I welcome you to do better unless you truly believe that everything is perfect and discount any one else's right to believe otherwise and offer constructive opinions and observations in a public fashion to the benefit of the Amian player community.

As I stated, you can feel free to ignore the thread if you fear it too restricting and narrow, but don't bring down what should be a positive atmosphere with insults, insinuations, and useless attacks in what can be a good thread as to improving the RP from the paladin player base.

You insulted my rp by calling it bad, do you honerstly think i care what you think, no matter how well you put your words, you still insulted me by calling my rp wrong, because I as a paladin result to violence when dealing with the enemies of my god.

and please....PLEASE do note that dm's have not restricted how paladins are played either, clearly the dm's dont have a problem with paladins that fights for thier gods instead of hoping in the redemption of every single being around.
I dont see your "suggestions"/order to change how paladins are played as constructive, because I find your reasoning wierd to say the least.

leave room for people to rp how they see fit, want to change that, do it ic, dont take it ooc, because it dosnt belong here. Its a faerunian theological discussion that might aswell be resolved ic'ly, dm's dont have a problem with how they play thier paladins, and ill be dammed if I let you tell me that im doing my rp wrong, because you dont like being smacked around.

Yes im angry, and no matter how politely you insult me i still take it as a insult.

-I dont find your "suggestion" constructive, I see it as a insulting demeaning way of trying to force change in rp.
-While you dont say change or die, you still seem to demand change, not accepting different ways of rping paladins.

Quote:

As shown above. It is a lack of RP involved outside of "Paladin A just murdered a guy wearing black next to the rock in Amia Forest!" " oh wait, its cool everyone, Paladin A says the dude in black he killed was a necromancer" that I find disappointing and am challenging paladin players to change.

That is bloody insulting and a narrowminded way of looking at very complext and well founded rp (supported by dm's as they dont have a problem with it).

With all due respect, grow up, you wont change peoples oppion about playing a paladin by gross generalisation and sentences like.

Quote:

Such is a problem with the paladin RP if they are initiating welcome combat with out so much as a "For your crimes!" etc. Battle cry or some such.

This is perfect valid rp, even if you grossly oversimplify it, know why?
because in faerun there are such things and wars that never ends, unending religius wars without remorse.
People are free to interpet this as a unending war that should never end, where negotiations are not a option,

Quote:

It is a sad fact of Amia at present which I am endeavoring to challenge change in.

It is not a sad fact, its a show of amia's greatness that both paladin types can exists, it gives diversity to rp.

and that is comming from a person who used to bitch, ALOT about the inactivity of paladins, how they only talked and never acted....but now i see it for what it is..a good diverse playerbase

*sighs* this is why we can't have nice things. Breath Kranium before you hyperventilate. I'm not telling you or anyone else you are wrong. I am offering an idea and looking for others that can add to the diverse paladin base that already exists in order to make it better. I call flaws as I have notice them and they help me formulate Personal opinions. You don't have to take any suggestions made to heart. I don't know why I must reiterate this over and over again, but perhaps I must break it down into simple English:
You are OK. Don't Panic. Here is something I think I'd like to see from our outstanding Paladin community: paladins engaging in more in dialogue with the guilty/evil before pulling out the can of "Feel My God's Wrath!" and applying it liberally to face of evil.

I am sorry that you think this all sone sort of large insult aimed at you as it is not. I sincerely hoped that you would reach that conclusion on your own, but please accept my apology and contribute productively instead of making jabs if what I am suggesting does not mesh with your personal RP.

DustSpray101 wrote:

*sighs* this is why we can't have nice things. Breath Kranium before you hyperventilate. I'm not telling you or anyone else you are wrong. I am offering an idea and looking for others that can add to the diverse paladin base that already exists in order to make it better. I call flaws as I have noticed them and they help me formulate opinions. I don't know why I must reiterate this over and over again, but perhaps I must break it down into simple English:
You are OK. Don't Panic. Here is something I think I'd like to see from our outstanding Paladin community: paladins engaging in more in dialogue with the guilty/evil before pulling out the can of "Feel My God's Wrath!" and applying it liberally to face of evil.

I am sorry that you think this all sone sort of large insult aimed at you as it is not. I sincerely hoped that you would reach that conclusion on your own, but please accept my apology and contribute productively instead of making jabs if what I am suggesting does not mesh with your personal RP.

I dont accept it because you dont acknowledge your own arrogance in what you are doing, I see close to nothing but demands for change in your posts, you make excuses to allow your continual rants about how "dissapointing" the paladin rp is, you say i dont listen to your arguements, well have you read any of mine? how the more agressive paladin rp is well founded, well supported both by players, lore and by the dm's.

Your damm right im pissed, and you speaking down to me defiantly dosnt help anything!

Quote:

Here is something I think I'd like to see from our outstanding Paladin community: paladins engaging in more in dialogue with the guilty/evil before pulling out the can of "Feel My God's Wrath!" and applying it liberally to face of evil.

I vote for a diverse paladin group, based on rp, based on players rp, based on faerunian law, and i strongly dissagrea with your high oppion of morality that should be shoved down peoples throats, you ask it nicely, but when you dont accept or consider others views, your just a dictator with a kind polite voice.
You call paladins, outstanding, then tell them how that are all wrong, because your oppion is apparently all that matters.
And this offhand comment about the Eternal order only shows how you really feel and how insulting you really are beneath all the apoligies.

Quote:

((Which one of the Kellie Paladins uses better bleach to hide the bloodstains on the immaculately white parts of their tabards? If that is the case, it is Joacim, hands down, but that is not the topic now is it?))

you redicule a group that works hard, based on thier dogma.

if you cant stand the fighting dont be a bloody moron and do evil things around paladins..how hard can that be?
Expect better treatments? want better dialog?...well start talking instead of going against paladins dogma's!

to end my rant here, i just want to point out one thing

HANDLE IT IC'ly or STAY OUT OF THE FIGHT

It's a players choice, mate, and there is no fight to be had. Please calm down.

Indeed Kranium rather large over-reaction on your part. Tone it down.

DustSpray101 wrote:

It's a players choice, mate, and there is no fight to be had. Please calm down.

read that line over and over again dustspray....and then take this ic, it dosnt belong in an ooc discussion as people have done what they have done because of rp.

I think I'm good with my own advice.

Otherwise, it isn't something that crosses the mind of players typically. Such is why it should be brought up OOC in public format for all to see. If this were an actual game of DnD, the Forums would be the table where you get to speak to the players as players. This is not a discussion for IC as no -character- can bring this point up to a player without breaking the 4th wall. What you ask of me makes no sense. So it is here on the forums, that this player chooses to address his fellow players in the hopes of improving the world he has chosen to play in.

DustSpray101 wrote:

I think I'm good with my own advice.

Otherwise, it isn't something that crosses the mind of players typically. Such is why it should be brought up OOC in public format for all to see. If this were an actual game of DnD, the Forums would be the table where you get to speak to the players as players. This is not a discussion for IC as no -character- can bring this point up to a player without breaking the 4th wall. What you ask of me makes no sense. So it is here on the forums, that this player chooses to address his fellow players in the hopes of improving the world he has chosen to play in.

Dm's have plenty of tools to deal with bad rp from paladins, i put my trust in them, if you think that a paladin is doing something wrong, then i believe you can screenshot and send it to a dm.

Will do?

Anyways, onwards with the discussion now that this nastiness is done!
Anyone else have thoughts they wish to toss in the brainstorm?

i think the main problem is not good players with questionable motives for attacking...

but evil players with borderline stupid actions, like walking around with demons

anyone else thinking this thread has run its course? seeing as the OP was answered within the first 30 posts and now its running to near 90

Personally, so long as you RP, whatever reaction your char has is what your char thinks.

Delia, my Tormtar (Tormite?) will not just attack a tiefer.

She /will/ attack a necromancer who summons a wraith.

/She/ feels your deeds are more powerful than your blood, most times. Your char may attack /Evil/ as they see evil, and it's not my place to say you're right or wrong.

If all else fails? Screeny, DM.

We're talking about paladins being good paladins again? Oh dear.

The interpretations are numerous and unnecessary to discuss. It is up to the DMs watching to decide if it's Fall-worthy or not. And isn't Fall-worthy all that really matters in the grand scheme of it?

I've often wondered why the DM team isn't more heavy on the falling. Its something that provides alot of RP. I guess its because atoning can be a pain in the bum with so many mini quests to do.

I'm with you Mosh.
I am pretty sure though that it could have to do with typically only 1 DM to 65+ people at a given time, which isn't a bad thing as much of Amia is able to take care of itself via PC driven quests/scripted quests/Server Center RP, but it means they miss a lot as they cannot be everywhere at once.

It might have more to do with player complaints and that sort of dramatic thing, but I don't really know.

drahgon wrote:

anyone else thinking this thread has run its course? seeing as the OP was answered within the first 30 posts and now its running to near 90

Yes. When it comes to Summoning of a wraith, use common sence. >.> Characters aren't stupid. Just cause you run off screen, doesn't mean we dont know it was you.

As for all this Paladin blabber, (Tried to read it all, failed my attention span) There are about 4 Topics on Good Vs. Evil atm. Please use those.

As long as everyone's being nice, who really cares? And this Good/Evil topic isn't really that much like the other one. If you couldn't even get through these, how did you get through the others? You don't even know what you're talking about!

...not that I really care if the thread gets locked. I just think you're adding to the spam you're complaining about, is all.

These kind of debates are ones that come from the heart! They can't be walled into one single thread, the thoughts must be steamed out when needed, duh!

It has less to do with the alignment and progressed into a brainstorming thing. A new topic for such can be created if the OP wishes. Their choice really.

Otherwise back on topic: I am genuinely curious if there a way to make fallen/redemption work without DM intervention. The bulk of Faerunian Dogma governing atonement for paladins, if they fall, would dictate that a head of the respective church or paladin order handle administering 'tests' but would someone simply of greater rank qualify seeing as how not all churches are purely PC run?

I am trying to figure out why fallen paladin status is something players seem afraid of more than their characters.

I agree with Dust....all his posts are perfectly valid and make great points...

And no...you can't RP a paladin however you want and still be called a paladin...and there simply aren't enough DMs to watch the Bloodthirsty, rapist, paladins do their dirty deeds.

If you are offended by that, chances are you are one of the bloodthirst, rapist, paladins.

You can RP as you choose to, but don't expect everyone to like it when it isn't good.

And TBH, I have seen some of the worst RP'd paladins ever to exist. They are not paladins, they are fighters, which the players used the Pally lvls to uberbuild.

In actuality there are good paladins too....but IMHO and anyone else's who doesn't play violent evil pally, there are more badly played ones then good ones....and rather than be upset about I am more disappointed.

Should they kill demons, devils, undead? Yes.
Should they treat living beings the same way? No. Not until they actually pose a bonafied physical threat.

My honest opinion and nothing more or less.

boobookittyscrew wrote:

And no...you can't RP a paladin however you want and still be called a paladin...and there simply aren't enough DMs to watch the Bloodthirsty, rapist, paladins do their dirty deeds.

If you are offended by that, chances are you are one of the bloodthirst, rapist, paladins.

Don't go down this path, booboo. It's going to give you some booboos. I'm offended by that and I definitely don't play a bloodthirsty, raping paladin.

There are ways to make generalizations without being insulting, but the chances are if you have to say, "If you're offended by this," it usually means it's cutting it too close to the line.

Be nice!

Summoning a wraith and you

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