AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Dream Coins: Giving and taking and inbetween

boobookittyscrew wrote:

I still stick by what I say: It is the worst idea ever conceived.

And monitor what exactly? There is no real way to monitor the RP that is or is not occuring for the DCs given out.

And in the end people should not get rewarded for simply being "the friend" of an exceptional RPr. They should be an exceptional RPr.

It will serve only to create an elitist feel, and I am frankly rather disgusted that this change has been implemented to further the goals of such elitist groups of players.

DCs are handed out to exceptional RPrs....but now...not anymore...now it can be handed to anyone...and that just.....sucks.

Spreadsheet or none it doesn't change he fact that this only serves those mainly who have OOC friends. I'm tempted to stop playing altogether now....it 'is' that bad.

My last word on the subject.

Eh. If someone wants to give their DCs to their friends. Let them? It isn't like players are spawning an infinite well of DCs they are giving out to everyone. Ill be surprised if I see very many players who will even part with their "precious" DCs.

I invoke the Elitist variant of the Godwin's Law.

I like this idea. I can name a few times in the past where the RP was so wonderful and I would gladly give DCs up. I'm one of those who isn't too terribly interested in buying things with DCs.. I still like getting them because I feel recognized for good RP. So.. I think it's awesome to be able to give them out when a DM can't be there. I'll be sure not to abuse it and if I see abuse.. you know I'll be telling.

It benifits IC friends more than OOC. I imagine that more people will now make extrovert Alts in order to increase the chances of earning a DC. I frankly wouldn't mind seeing this as it encourages RP. Lets face it, like hex anyone would simply hand out a DC that they worked hard on receiving to a loner they know nothing about, etc.

Otherwise, I am curious as to how players being friends with other players in the realword figures into things when there are only a finite amount of coins they can toss in any direction at any given time and when they are out, they need to go try to earn more.

Edit: Grammar. Mobile devices auto filling/correcting text was a horrible invention.

I wasn't sure how I felt about this to begin with, and I'll admit that I don't really know why. Now I'm feeling good about it. It's a move in the right direction...

Still an Aussie.

There is much irony in what you say about elitism, boobookitty, had you not realized.

Oh thank God I wasn't the only one to notice, Iron. I was about to comment on that...

I feel positive about these changes. For players that aren't able to play during regular DM hours, it allows them to earn DC's based on the merit and appreciation of their roleplay by other players. And all of that without creating more DC's in the system without a DM.

I don't see much room for abuse. The waiting period coupled with the fact that the skin is coming off someone else's nose, it's not something that's going to be taken too lightly.

Heh...actually I noticed that ironic statement now looking back at it...

What I meant is that there are people who will get DCs who actually might not deserve them.

Given also with the players who are highly watched by DMs sometimes have upwards of a hundred DCs, they can hand theirs out enough to max lvl a newb player.

To me it's like twinking...but with DCs. Why not just remove the twinking rule while you're at it and allow anyone to get weapons ftrom the abyss at lvl 2?

And DCs can get you even more powerful stuff ten you find in the abyss.

Even if we are to say that would happen. I doubt the DMs would allow a level 2 newbe who has been on the server a few days request something insanely powerful without a -strong- RP back story and an already known presence on Amia that says they can handle following through with the RP right.

boobookittyscrew wrote:

Heh...actually I noticed that ironic statement now looking back at it...

What I meant is that there are people who will get DCs who actually might not deserve them.

Given also with the players who are highly watched by DMs sometimes have upwards of a hundred DCs, they can hand theirs out enough to max lvl a newb player.

To me it's like twinking...but with DCs. Why not just remove the twinking rule while you're at it and allow anyone to get weapons ftrom the abyss at lvl 2?

And DCs can get you even more powerful stuff ten you find in the abyss.

Listen, people know what is the right way to do this, and what is not. They know what constitutes twinking, and it all comes down to player responsibility. So please, lets not mess up this opportunity to expand RP, and make it a bit more rewarding than just the warm fuzzy feelings in our hearts we get when we do so. This could create much interest, I think the idea has merit and potential. Of course, as always, I assume its on a trial basis, if it is flagrantly abused, then I'm sure the plug would be pulled.

I think the people, for the most part, with alot of DCs, know good RP from bad rp, IN MOST CASES. They didn't just randomly receive them for nothing. Lets trust in eachother's judgement, and not just come up with conspiracy theories, or whatever you want to call it. Instead of looking at all the bad things that COULD happen, lets look at the potential for higher levels of roleplaying. Yes, I am sure a small number, a vast minority, will abuse this. That just comes with the territory.

Just try it.

I'm sorry, did something change?

I must not have noticed, it was so minor, and so not worth the "I'm gona leave it's so bad" speech.

...and that's;
"My last word on the subject."

(Yup, I'm venting frustration at a certain person, feel free to temp forum ban if needed, I shall fully and happily accept)

Meh.
Let me get my head around this.

So if someone gives a DC, they can't recieve a DC from players for 48 hours, and nor can they give out more DC's. But the person they have given DC's to can still give them out, but cannot recieve them?

boobookittyscrew wrote:

Heh...actually I noticed that ironic statement now looking back at it...

What I meant is that there are people who will get DCs who actually might not deserve them.

Given also with the players who are highly watched by DMs sometimes have upwards of a hundred DCs, they can hand theirs out enough to max lvl a newb player.

To me it's like twinking...but with DCs. Why not just remove the twinking rule while you're at it and allow anyone to get weapons ftrom the abyss at lvl 2?

And DCs can get you even more powerful stuff ten you find in the abyss.

There's still irony here, booboo.

You are just so good at it and being a bit too offensive that it's kinda funny.

boobookittyscrew wrote:

Heh...actually I noticed that ironic statement now looking back at it...

What I meant is that there are people who will get DCs who actually might not deserve them.

Given also with the players who are highly watched by DMs sometimes have upwards of a hundred DCs, they can hand theirs out enough to max lvl a newb player.

To me it's like twinking...but with DCs. Why not just remove the twinking rule while you're at it and allow anyone to get weapons ftrom the abyss at lvl 2?

And DCs can get you even more powerful stuff ten you find in the abyss.

1 dream coin every 2 days does not twinking make. It takes upwards of around 20 DC's to fully level a new character to 30. That's... More than a month?

Also; A person can give out as many dream coins as they have, to anyone who hasn't already recieved one in the past 48 hours. If I give you a dream coin and you give me a dream coin, neither of us can get a dream coin for 48 hours. But we could give them to others until we're out of Dream Coins.

That';s my take on it

Close, Wolfy, but it's actually (I think) around 112 DC coins to hit level 30 from level 2.

Yeah, it's 3.(something) DCs for one level. That's at least 6 days per level. If someone wants to spend 170 days giving someone 85 DCs to get to 30 from 3, then that's on them. It probably shouldn't be a problem.

Mind that we aren't shortsighted and the idea that we'd implement this without a way to track and double check every DC that exhanges hands is silly. Have a bit of faith in both us and your fellow players.

In the end, as I said, it's simple. You have the chance to prove the DMs wrong for what we've said over the years; that players can't handle the responsibility of taking part in giving dCs. either you prove us wrong, do it well and enrich the server and solve one of the problems you say exists with the DC system.... or you game it, we remove it, and never look back.

Wait, I'm confused. Can't you hand DC requested loot/items to whoever? I was told this by a DM sometime ago. If so, why give an example where someone can only pay 50%?

Not that I've ever done it, care, or whatever, but it just seems counter-intuitive.

---
The whole point of the dream coin system is to reward people who roleplay. I don't see why anyone would care how other people spend their reward. It might be time to get the fuck out of your house and look around outside, if you think it's going to be devastating.

While I see a possibility for abuse, I'm sure that a system is in place to track every single 1 and 0 of DC data that streams across the Interwebs. I'm just hoping that nobody is stupid enough to try to pull one over on the system and screw the rest of us out of what I think could be an awesome idea.

Worst thing that I can think of is that the DCs would become a secret currency that exists only in tells: to be sold to the highest bidder. Farmers can kit out a new toon with epic loots for a dc or two. The upside is that the people overflowing with DCs are more unlikely to trade them away; and, cashing in those DCs still needs to go through the DMs.

Overall, this doesn't seem to be such a big deal for me. I doubt I'll ever be so moved as to to give away what little DCs I have to others.

There is no such thing as a perfect system. No matter what, someone will always find something wrong with it. Every system, every rule, has potential for abuse. How is this any different? If it does not work, they will remove it, problem solved. But isn't the chance of a great thing, worth the risk? If it turns badly, it will be shut down quickly. I honestly don't see the problem with just giving it a chance.

Last edited by Greyweaver on Sun, Nov 21 2010, 6:27 AM, edited 6 times in total.

I've been on Amia long enough to know this isn't new. This option had been available before on the dream wands and was removed, way back when Thayan Crafting System was still being used. So it has been taken off once before that I know of. Let work to keep it going this time. I personally feel it's something that could be a cool thing and I like the idea. There is always someone out there that will try abuse or get around the system but from what I understand;

Change 1: the non dm transfer of DC's for rp is watched closely, cheaters are going to cheat and eventually they'll get caught.

Change 2: The dm supervised request to pool dc's is awesome. I could see how this would be useful in a faction setting especially for buying placeables, to be used in faction rp.

Spouting conspiracy theories does not a conspiracy make. Most the players I've met on the server are responsible enough to use these changes without incedent. The few far and in-between that would cheat the system will cut thier own throat so to speak because they -will- get caught. I'm sure the dms would punish them justly for it too not excluding being banned. At any rate there -is- precautions and checks that have been set in place by the DM's. Sounds to me they got this under control to an extent. Thanks guys for implementing this. Looking forward to putting it to use.

(Editted to remove foot from mouth >.<)

It never existed before. Players have never been able to give DCs. And I have been on Amia long enough to know that.

Quote:

Wait, I'm confused. Can't you hand DC requested loot/items to whoever? I was told this by a DM sometime ago. If so, why give an example where someone can only pay 50%?

It is "possible", but all changing of hands must ogo through DMs and be approved.

I dislike the pooling thing as it means factions who's members are more active in DMed playtimes will generally be able to pool DC's faster then those who are not. I feel that is rather unfair.

However, I'm going to say that given my timezone.

For all the threads about wishing that people could get more DC's, I am sort of amazed at the naysayer posts within this thread... I mean, the Staff seems to looks to be giving the Players the means of taking care of the "Lack of DCs," shouldn't we be overjoyed?

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I dislike the pooling thing as it means factions who's members are more active in DMed playtimes will generally be able to pool DC's faster then those who are not. I feel that is rather unfair.

However, I'm going to say that given my timezone.

If this is a problem it's happening already, regardless of this change.

----------

I like the switch personally, because it encourages better rp, server-wide, as people can have in the back of their minds:

"If I impress the -players- enough with my rp, I might get a dc."

..granted that shouldn't be the sole motivation of one's rp, but if it helps, *shrug*

Also, people might be less inclined to get on each-others 'bad' sides... -but maybe I'm dreaming.

Kudark wrote:

What's a DC?

Was sarcasm.

I could care less how many DC's I get or have, I'll give them all out if I feel like it. I used one so far, only because I was sick of grinding and dying because I push my character out of the envelope. Sure, it's nice to know that my RP has been appreciated, but I don't need a physical token of it. I actually enjoy using my wand on others though, I'm always looking for good (genuine) RP.

I'm confused about one thing.

Are these changes In Addition To nomination by the wand or In Replacement Of nomination by the wand?

splat_phastkyl wrote:

I'm confused about one thing.

Are these changes In Addition To nomination by the wand or In Replacement Of nomination by the wand?

Addition to. DMs will always been needed to give DCs cause they are the only source of infinite goodness.

Maverick00053 wrote:

splat_phastkyl wrote:

I'm confused about one thing.

Are these changes In Addition To nomination by the wand or In Replacement Of nomination by the wand?

Addition to. DMs will always been needed to give DCs cause they are the only source of infinite goodness.

Coolness.
I think these new things might work.
I've seen LARPS where, every weekend, players were allotted 4 xp to pass to their fellow players, maximum of 1xp reward per player. Despite such an abundant pool of xp potential, the players were rather reserved in their offering, preferring to give to award the xp to high grades of rp, or very entertaining instances of rp.
So, having witnessing such an example of self moderation first hand, I feel that the majority of Amia players are capable of exercising the same measure of judgment and balance in handing out dcs.
But, that's just my opinion.
As for the pooling, I've seen it used on Mushes and Muds that are xp based or point based for groups to build or purchase special equipment, bases, and the like. Usually, the purchase had some group focus or multi-person usage out of it. Over all, it seemed to function well as, in the end, there was still a moderator judging the item to be created and who was donating what and how much into it.

So, over all, if Larpers and Mushers can successfully and properly use these techniques, I think Amians can, too.

Alkor wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I dislike the pooling thing as it means factions who's members are more active in DMed playtimes will generally be able to pool DC's faster then those who are not. I feel that is rather unfair.

However, I'm going to say that given my timezone.

If this is a problem it's happening already, regardless of this change.

----------

I like the switch personally, because it encourages better rp, server-wide, as people can have in the back of their minds:

"If I impress the -players- enough with my rp, I might get a dc."

..granted that shouldn't be the sole motivation of one's rp, but if it helps, *shrug*

Also, people might be less inclined to get on each-others 'bad' sides... -but maybe I'm dreaming.

Except there is no need to make the matter worse.

Greyweaver wrote:

I've been on Amia long enough to know this isn't new. This option had been available before on the dream wands and was removed, way back when Thayan Crafting System was still being used. So it has been taken off once before that I know of....(abbreviated)

TormakSaber wrote:

It never existed before. Players have never been able to give DCs. And I have been on Amia long enough to know that.

Really!? my bad! >.< I thought it was but I'll take your word for it. Must've been a different server. I'm going to strike that out on my original post then.

Greyweaver wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

It never existed before. Players have never been able to give DCs. And I have been on Amia long enough to know that.

Really!? my bad! >.< must've been a different server. I'm going to blank that out on my original post then.

Might have been a DM who you didn't know was a DM over at playerside?
So the statement is half-right, DMs as players can give DCs.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Greyweaver wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

It never existed before. Players have never been able to give DCs. And I have been on Amia long enough to know that.

Really!? my bad! >.< must've been a different server. I'm going to blank that out on my original post then.

Might have been a DM who you didn't know was a DM over at playerside?
So the statement is half-right, DMs as players can give DCs.

no it was an option available to players when the wand was clicked on another player. Transfer dc for good rp, or something like that. It's really no big deal, I stand corrected, it's all good, it happens. At any rate I like the idea and hope it works out.

Like Selvec said, we are still in a shit time-zone so whilst I like the idea its not going to have very much, if any effect on us Aussies, Asiatics and Kiwis and there are a fair number of us. But that of course is again down to the fact that there is no our side of the world DM's any-more. Which is fine. I don't play on this server for a reward.

MoshingChris wrote:

Like Selvec said, we are still in a shit time-zone so whilst I like the idea its not going to have very much, if any effect on us Aussies, Asiatics and Kiwis and there are a fair number of us. But that of course is again down to the fact that there is no our side of the world DM's any-more. Which is fine. I don't play on this server for a reward.

So do I. If I played for reward I'd so be on the wrong server.
But I don't know. When I saw this thread and read the first post I kinda felt like the system seemed to be some attempt to make life just a wee bit more fair for anyone who plays during non-dmed times. But of course it doesn't really change that much to begin with, as you have pointed out, in some cases it may make the difference between those who play in one timezone, and those who do not, even larger.

It sounds like a nice system, and seems to be along a good path to potentially relieving the difference between timezones and playtimes. But it just feels like it misses the mark of its target audience ever so slightly.

what if player faction leaders could give out DCs to others like DMs but on a limited scale to prevent abuse?

I think Tormak is trying to say more than just a Rude 'No'.

Factionleaders are, By no means, Equal or close to DM Status. They're players given responsibility IC that happens to Say, Moderate a Forum or lead a faction.
It doesn't mean they're entitled to handing out rewards for Role-Play, Mainly because they're on the same Status as Players - And players are not to be trusted.

Up to evidence if this interpretation is right or wrong.

tormaks rude "no's" translate to me as "i have a good reason why so i respectful but firmly say my opinion and it is negatory".
also, the idea that the faction leaders are not dms is of course true but think that these players are obviously trusted to run events and such by the dms (from what i have seen) and behave a bit more properly. at dm discretion, could certain (maybe even secret PCs) be given the ability to hand out a LIMITED amount as rewards no cost to themselves? this would be tracked and monitored of course... it would mean that more rp would happen not only when dms are watching but at all times. if it was kept secret who gave out DCs through ambiguous things like vague messages or even no messages from dms nor players then it wouldent be able to be abused by people camping around those players. the dms would have to trust those players and the penalty for breaking that trust would be harsh, even perma ban? i would be comfortable giving this power to those i work IG with as well as our "enemies" because i thing they could be responsible. limiting the number to a finite number before an evaluation must be conducted upon request for more would keep them from being handed out constantly, as well as time restraints (cooldown). checks and balances is what is needed to enhance flexibility with handing these dcs out. unwarranted dcs could always be taken back if the dms see fit.

The first post says it very clearly and simply: DMs will remain the only infinite wellspring of DCs. This is not currently up for negotiation, sorry.

I like the idea, it's fair enough. Better then relying on DM's to be available all the time. It's not that I care about DC's all that much in terms of getting some powerful items and such, it's mostly for cosmetic purposes to me.

I still think some appearances should be given with the request since a request is (needed) a sign of some sort of trust. I'm sure it'll be just a, no. Since you have to have the DC's before requesting. Which kind of sucks for some that really want to play their characters but have to settle for something 'normal'.

If the requency of the DC's weren't so low, I wouldn't have much problem with the system. So, I think this is a good idea. It'll help those who really want their apperances changed or altered and not have the required DC's, the half paid by another player would be very helpful.

rolto wrote:

If the [f]requency of the DC's weren't so low, I wouldn't have much problem with the system. So, I think this is a good idea. It'll help those who really want their apperances changed or altered and not have the required DC's, the half paid by another player would be very helpful.

I agree. Cosmetic changes just to fit a character don't make your character stronger, but I understand that it takes time and some effort for the cosmetic change to be made. I'm currently trying to save up 10 DCs for a summon skinchange, but that may never happen because DCs are just too infrequent. I'm just frusterated with trying to aquire DCs when others have a zillion because I don't see how that can be possible. At least this change is a step in a better direction.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Like Selvec said, we are still in a shit time-zone so whilst I like the idea its not going to have very much, if any effect on us Aussies, Asiatics and Kiwis and there are a fair number of us. But that of course is again down to the fact that there is no our side of the world DM's any-more. Which is fine. I don't play on this server for a reward.

So do I. If I played for reward I'd so be on the wrong server.
But I don't know. When I saw this thread and read the first post I kinda felt like the system seemed to be some attempt to make life just a wee bit more fair for anyone who plays during non-dmed times. But of course it doesn't really change that much to begin with, as you have pointed out, in some cases it may make the difference between those who play in one timezone, and those who do not, even larger.

It sounds like a nice system, and seems to be along a good path to potentially relieving the difference between timezones and playtimes. But it just feels like it misses the mark of its target audience ever so slightly.

This, since if you're playing in the Aussie/Kiwi/So on timezone with other people of that timezone and none of you get Dc's than you.. have none to pass to eachother.
Not that I'm complaining, since I myself am on outside of that timezone, was just an idle thought.

I rather like the idea. If it gets out of hand in some unexpected way it can be withdrawn and the DM's have the ability to check for unexpected misuse. More flexibility and responsibility in the hands of the playerbase, properly monitored, is not a bad thing. Thumbs up.

Gondor wrote:

Those who see DC's as their motivational reason to play a game like nwn are idiots.

^ This, basically.

I've always thought of good roleplay as its own reward. If I had a way to cash in my DC's in exchange for more good rp, I'd be down with that =D

I guess I just don't see what the "THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD" flavoured fuss is about. People abuse systems. This has been true since before written law, and it's true today in so many forms. Those in power will crack down on those who resent that power, and 95% of the population will be largely unaffected.

Dream Coins: Giving and taking and inbetween

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