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IronAngel
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 Posted: Sat, Dec 18 2010, 20:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I think Yossarin's bitter point is that you're asking him to do exactly what other players want him not to do. No matter which way he goes about it, there are players who think he's not doing his job as a DM and that he should be doing the exact opposite. It's almost ironic, and certainly tragic. Forget who's right and who's wrong: either way he fails to meet the expectations of a part of the playerbase.
Of course, that's not to say you don't have the viable option of choosing what you think is the better option, and rolling with it despite the nay-sayers. But he likes to wallow dramatically in the tragedy of it all. That's my interpretation, at least! The DMs actually do a fair deal of cool, small events. Or used to, in any case. You just don't see them that often: just remember how rarely you see an inclusive large-scale event, and compare that to the likelihood of stumbling across a smaller one that includes maybe 1/4 of the PCs the larger one would.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Yossarin
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Posted: Sat, Dec 18 2010, 20:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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IronAngel wrote: I think Yossarin's bitter point is that you're asking him to do exactly what other players want him not to do. No matter which way he goes about it, there are players who think he's not doing his job as a DM and that he should be doing the exact opposite. It's almost ironic, and certainly tragic. Forget who's right and who's wrong: either way he fails to meet the expectations of a part of the playerbase.
Of course, that's not to say you don't have the viable option of choosing what you think is the better option, and rolling with it despite the nay-sayers. But he likes to wallow dramatically in the tragedy of it all. That's my interpretation, at least! The DMs actually do a fair deal of cool, small events. Or used to, in any case. You just don't see them that often: just remember how rarely you see an inclusive large-scale event, and compare that to the likelihood of stumbling across a smaller one that includes maybe 1/4 of the PCs the larger one would. Nail on head on every detail, including my melodrama.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 4:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Yossarin wrote: IronAngel wrote: I think Yossarin's bitter point is that you're asking him to do exactly what other players want him not to do. No matter which way he goes about it, there are players who think he's not doing his job as a DM and that he should be doing the exact opposite. It's almost ironic, and certainly tragic. Forget who's right and who's wrong: either way he fails to meet the expectations of a part of the playerbase.
Of course, that's not to say you don't have the viable option of choosing what you think is the better option, and rolling with it despite the nay-sayers. But he likes to wallow dramatically in the tragedy of it all. That's my interpretation, at least! The DMs actually do a fair deal of cool, small events. Or used to, in any case. You just don't see them that often: just remember how rarely you see an inclusive large-scale event, and compare that to the likelihood of stumbling across a smaller one that includes maybe 1/4 of the PCs the larger one would. Nail on head on every detail, including my melodrama. Take a kiwi attitude to things Yos. Bugger the rest, I'll do what I like doing.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Kudark
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Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 20:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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I hate Party Chat, unfortunately, most of the time, I would be clueless as to what's going on without it in a hunting party. I hate having to filter through it when trying to RP.
I was recently in a hunting party and a 'party' member was elsewhere (Cordor) and said "where are you guys?", "I'm coming anyways because I'm bored" I wanted to pipe in about metagaming, but didn't want to come across as a whiny bitch, so I said nothing and it ended up the guy pist someone off and the party disbanded. We were getting no gold or XP due to level spread, it was just an RP based hunting party.
(I can't tell you how sick I am of metagamers lately, but I keep my mouth shut more often than not.)
I stay away from events my character doesn't know about, even if I think he should be there. I don't always rush to a scene that a DM Shouts about either, just because it's a Shout, doesn't mean you should drop what you're doing and hastily run to hopefully get your complimentary DC just for being there. I don't always follow the crowd when chasing perps, someone has to stay behind for defense at times too, you've heard of a diversion, yes?
Please don't forsake the little events over a few people with no consideration for those of us here for the role-play.
Thank you.
_________________ 
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Wolfking6116
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Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 21:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Location: -5 GMT
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Kudark wrote: I hate Party Chat, unfortunately, most of the time, I would be clueless as to what's going on without it in a hunting party. I hate having to filter through it when trying to RP.
I was recently in a hunting party and a 'party' member was elsewhere (Cordor) and said "where are you guys?", "I'm coming anyways because I'm bored" I wanted to pipe in about metagaming, but didn't want to come across as a whiny bitch, so I said nothing and it ended up the guy pist someone off and the party disbanded. I like to use Party Chat, but mostly to get better acquainted OOCly with the people I spend almost all my time with ICly. When it turns to hunting (which I rarely do) I try to turn it entirely IC, which is difficult sometimes. If you're looking to to 'filter' it, turn off Party Chat in the Chat log and turn it on in the Combat Log. As for the distant party member... Sometimes that sort of thing can be a good thing, but on occassions such as that it can be very irritating. Though perhaps if the party members didn't get along too well, it's best if it disbanded. Kudark wrote: I stay away from events my character doesn't know about, even if I think he should be there. I don't always rush to a scene that a DM Shouts about either, just because it's a Shout, doesn't mean you should drop what you're doing and hastily run to hopefully get your complimentary DC just for being there. This sort of thing I can't stand. I've actually had times where this sort of thing was about to happen with one of my friends zipping away from what we were doing to go see what a DM shout was all about. It was a minute detail that was announced, so I berated him about it. "Would your character -really- notice something like that...? Seriously dude." He got pissed off, but eventually understood. A short while afterwards, I gave him a reason to check it out because I felt bad for calling him out on it. Minutes after he leaves, a DM knocks at the door. Quite literally. _________________ Jack Tesilent - Jack's Bio
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Kudark
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Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 23:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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I don't mean to berate Party Chat, and you're right, it is a good way to get to know other players better.
I never filter anything out.
It's just so hard to read and move and attack and type and read and heal and ... you get the point, lol.
The RP part is hard enough for my slow typing skills during combat, and I was just referring to excessive use is all.
I'm not trying to make a big deal of it.
I guess hate is too strong a word to use then.
_________________
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Nomorefun
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Posted: Wed, Dec 22 2010, 8:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2010
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Who would willingly log in and DM for 40-60 people? They're all crazy.
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Estara
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 8:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Small-scale events rock! Much more personal and much better player-DM response time. In regards to being a tired DM or a player who wants more events: it's life. They'll happen sometimes and they won't happen sometimes. Players will be OOC-obsessed and drama bitches sometimes. All you can control is how well you set yourself up for success, but it doesn't guarantee anything. Try to find joy in the preparation. 
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Strawberry Stallion
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 13:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2010
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Can't wait to get involved in my first event. Been waiting for months for one to pop up, but oh well, will keep waiting and hoping I'll be selected or inserted into one without causing any griefance to the players or DM involved. 
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 13:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Its an unfortunate fact that at this time there is no dedicated DM for this Timezone. You'll catch one eventually, just none dedicated to it.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Strawberry Stallion
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 13:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2010
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*Apps for DM and does it since there is no dedicated GMT0 DM. :B* That's too bad though. 
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The Peacock
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 14:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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To be honest, more DMs is a bad idea. The DM team, in my opinion, needs to be intimate in order to better know A. Each other, and B. The playerbase.
There are tonnes of stories, tonnes of behind-the-scene rubbish that the DMs have to deal with AS WELL as playing in game. Naturally, not all the DMs are going to be keen and smitten to jump into the field for 4-6 hours everyday. Whilst that is the most optimistic and optimal way of doing things, it simply isn't practical. It also isn't practical to hire DMs willy nilly either.
Quality over Quantity, imho. If you've got concerns with the level of performance in terms of short-events, or long-term events; then you'd be looking at the level of quality, rather than who-the-fuck-did-that-event? I think this allows for a better system. Less DMs equals higher quality.
Of course, you then have the issue of who determines what quality is. Often that is the already enstated DM team. People have preferences, opinions and likeabilities. If those things aren't catered to, someone who is GENIUS at DMing, could be overlooked because he doesn't appease an already enstated DMs tastes.
Variables, variables. Nevertheless - I am bored of writing now.
_________________  'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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Dwagin
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 16:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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Throwing more monkeys at typewriters won't give you Shakespeare.
Really can't say anything better that hasn't been said by Peacock or Iron on this page though.
Also, no one is stopping you from running your own event or setting up something for a DM assist if its outside their normal time zone, use the requests forum, maybe one of them can make it work. There's so much you can do if you just keep focused and try to do stuff for people yourself. Make it happen.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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dayfer
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 17:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Location: England
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Nomorefun wrote: Who would willingly log in and DM for 40-60 people? Me. I only ever DMed to about 5, sounds like a challenge
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Yossarin
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 17:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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You cannot perfectly compare us to tabletop DMs. We're usually actively DM'ing for a smaller portion of the active playerbase and just babysitting the rest of you.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 17:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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40-60 people events are pretty much restricted to something that would affect the entire server in some way, aka quite rare. Doing them otherwise is pretty dumb, actually, because an individual player's role is diminished to that of a spectator. You cannot have an event with 40+ leading role, active characters. Just the sheer amount of scripts and commands running thanks to 40+ people in the same area at the same time can bring a server to its knees, too. 20+ people is enough to do that.
And I'm talking of events, not plots that are made up of several events, sometimes with different groups of players. That's something different when talking large numbers of players.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 19:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Large events do not transform the individual's work into that of a spectator. Robert/Alanna's did not. Mine did not. Yossarin's did not.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Grymia
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 19:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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A better comparison:
An individuals work, in a larger event is like a small pebble being dropped in a poind. On it's own, it's a pebble creating a small splash, but with ripples that work their way out and eventually, given time are noticed.
Sometimes, the individual splash is larger with less felt ripples overall, depending on the situation.
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Burningoutbright
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 19:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Location: Where the She-Devils roam
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I think that we need to acknowledge that some people just feel left out and ignored in large events. Not everyone gets heard, PCs/players defer to the recognizable names, and because of it, usually that is where the DM's attention is. It's not this way in every event, but with players I've talked to about events, it happens fairly often and maybe that discouraging truth goes unnoticed because there is no point in openly complaining, or complaining to the DM that your PC was unacknowledged and that you lost interest.
Sometimes, I think people don't want to just be the pebble and have to invest so much time into something, and still just be the pebble. It can be tedious and can become dull and frustrating.
Anyway, point being: More small events, plz. <3
_________________  "The world takes and takes, even things that aren't offered. Finally, it gave us something back; I wish he was here to share it with me."
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Nysor
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 22:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2008
Location: Wherever it is, it better not be cold
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Burningoutbright wrote: More small events, plz. <3 Agreed. I remember an event put on by mother goose that involved a small forest group in a hidden grove. Still my favorite even to this day. Small events FTW
_________________
Nysor Shorshanis: A squirrel in his own right
Solrend Inignus: The Kossuthian cleric who is "hot, but not in that way"
Adin Twitterleaf: Crazy elven trickster.
Isaac Kley: Young gimp of a sorcerer.
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Grymia
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Posted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 22:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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I remember a small event with Nekhy involving myself as Bryce, Nev, Garrett and Cerridwyn which I'll still my tongue on further information for fear of being rendered flatter then a pancake.
That was awesome.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Dec 24 2010, 0:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Burningoutbright wrote: I think that we need to acknowledge that some people just feel left out and ignored in large events. Not everyone gets heard, PCs/players defer to the recognizable names, and because of it, usually that is where the DM's attention is. It's not this way in every event, but with players I've talked to about events, it happens fairly often and maybe that discouraging truth goes unnoticed because there is no point in openly complaining, or complaining to the DM that your PC was unacknowledged and that you lost interest.
Sometimes, I think people don't want to just be the pebble and have to invest so much time into something, and still just be the pebble. It can be tedious and can become dull and frustrating.
Anyway, point being: More small events, plz. <3 I can say I have felt left out with Calin & Xal in one or two particularly large events. You get a break, an entrance into the event, and generally when you try to progress further, an established group of research, or mages or adventurers, puts a wall up and tries to shuffle you off ASAP. Its happened a few times now. I've also noticed it's quite common for groups to solve someones minor issue fast as they can, then block them out from being involved any further in whats going on. Its really annoying. There is only one large event I'm not willing to have others involved in at this particular time, and that's because the last time my character did, he got burnt IC by including others. But any other large events, I'm quite willing to make an effort to include anyone. Without stretching the limits of my character to far.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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billytheid
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Posted: Fri, Dec 24 2010, 0:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis
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I've always played a 'bad guy' and as such have not had an active role in any of the really big events run by the DMs(events not plots). I have however been involved in plenty of little DM watched PC to PC interactions; theft, assassination, general nasty-buggery.
I feel rather lucky in that respect and honestly hope more people get the chance to take part in little interactions like this; that said I did have to actually DO SOMETHING to have these minor events take place. If there is IC planning and OOC communication with the DMs then they will do something for you. It's not a myth.
_________________
Jess Incognito: F.L.A.G. Inc.
Gharl Killith: Hobgoblin Headhunter
Olaf Grudgebringer: Bad tempered Dwarvern Weaponsmith
"But thats mainly because I'm an Aussie and what you guys call flaming and rudeness I call a normal conversation."
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billytheid
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Posted: Fri, Dec 24 2010, 0:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Burningoutbright wrote: I think that we need to acknowledge that some people just feel left out and ignored in large events. Not everyone gets heard, PCs/players defer to the recognizable names, and because of it, usually that is where the DM's attention is. It's not this way in every event, but with players I've talked to about events, it happens fairly often and maybe that discouraging truth goes unnoticed because there is no point in openly complaining, or complaining to the DM that your PC was unacknowledged and that you lost interest.
Sometimes, I think people don't want to just be the pebble and have to invest so much time into something, and still just be the pebble. It can be tedious and can become dull and frustrating.
Anyway, point being: More small events, plz. <3 I can say I have felt left out with Calin & Xal in one or two particularly large events. You get a break, an entrance into the event, and generally when you try to progress further, an established group of research, or mages or adventurers, puts a wall up and tries to shuffle you off ASAP. Its happened a few times now. I've also noticed it's quite common for groups to solve someones minor issue fast as they can, then block them out from being involved any further in whats going on. Its really annoying. There is only one large event I'm not willing to have others involved in at this particular time, and that's because the last time my character did, he got burnt IC by including others. But any other large events, I'm quite willing to make an effort to include anyone. Without stretching the limits of my character to far. This is also true, though it is hard for the DMs to stop people being OOCly selfish without ICly killing them.
_________________
Jess Incognito: F.L.A.G. Inc.
Gharl Killith: Hobgoblin Headhunter
Olaf Grudgebringer: Bad tempered Dwarvern Weaponsmith
"But thats mainly because I'm an Aussie and what you guys call flaming and rudeness I call a normal conversation."
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Strawberry Stallion
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Posted: Fri, Dec 24 2010, 11:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2010
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Send a PM to the other players asking them to stop being douches oocly.
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Silvarus
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Posted: Fri, Dec 24 2010, 11:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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I am usually fine with people wanting to keep the plots, attention and DC:s to themselves... ... however, every now and then there are undead crawling EVERYWHERE and the Eternal Order shows up to clean up the mess... and when THEN someone tries to do that, it can get messy. You do not tell the Eternal Order of Goddamn Kelemvor to *bleep* off and leave your Undead alone. Keeping us from purging the un-living will only get you in big violent trouble.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Dec 25 2010, 5:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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billytheid wrote: Selvec Darkon wrote: Burningoutbright wrote: I think that we need to acknowledge that some people just feel left out and ignored in large events. Not everyone gets heard, PCs/players defer to the recognizable names, and because of it, usually that is where the DM's attention is. It's not this way in every event, but with players I've talked to about events, it happens fairly often and maybe that discouraging truth goes unnoticed because there is no point in openly complaining, or complaining to the DM that your PC was unacknowledged and that you lost interest.
Sometimes, I think people don't want to just be the pebble and have to invest so much time into something, and still just be the pebble. It can be tedious and can become dull and frustrating.
Anyway, point being: More small events, plz. <3 I can say I have felt left out with Calin & Xal in one or two particularly large events. You get a break, an entrance into the event, and generally when you try to progress further, an established group of research, or mages or adventurers, puts a wall up and tries to shuffle you off ASAP. Its happened a few times now. I've also noticed it's quite common for groups to solve someones minor issue fast as they can, then block them out from being involved any further in whats going on. Its really annoying. There is only one large event I'm not willing to have others involved in at this particular time, and that's because the last time my character did, he got burnt IC by including others. But any other large events, I'm quite willing to make an effort to include anyone. Without stretching the limits of my character to far. This is also true, though it is hard for the DMs to stop people being OOCly selfish without ICly killing them. Why do you automatically assume it is OOC selfishness?
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Silvarus
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Posted: Sat, Dec 25 2010, 10:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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TormakSaber wrote: Why do you automatically assume it is OOC selfishness? Good point. I can name countless characters for whom these responses are perfectly valid IC.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sat, Dec 25 2010, 10:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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TormakSaber wrote: billytheid wrote: Selvec Darkon wrote:
I can say I have felt left out with Calin & Xal in one or two particularly large events. You get a break, an entrance into the event, and generally when you try to progress further, an established group of research, or mages or adventurers, puts a wall up and tries to shuffle you off ASAP. Its happened a few times now. I've also noticed it's quite common for groups to solve someones minor issue fast as they can, then block them out from being involved any further in whats going on. Its really annoying.
There is only one large event I'm not willing to have others involved in at this particular time, and that's because the last time my character did, he got burnt IC by including others. But any other large events, I'm quite willing to make an effort to include anyone. Without stretching the limits of my character to far.
This is also true, though it is hard for the DMs to stop people being OOCly selfish without ICly killing them. Why do you automatically assume it is OOC selfishness? I wouldn't say selfishness, just perhaps too quick to toss people away. It does leave a bit of a sour taste in someones mouth when they put much effort in getting involved, only to be kicked in the ass and told to piss off. Then never getting involved in the event because the DM just doesn't have the time to cater to two different groups, which makes sense.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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