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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 1:00 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Anyhow - I was intending to ask if there's another source on Dragon Diciplies, rather than the draconomicon? It looks like it only covers 'The dragon's' and not the classes.

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Last edited by Mobile_Svensk on Mon, Jan 17 2011, 21:28 PM, edited 3 times in total.

P Three

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 1:01 AM

Player

Joined: 18 Dec 2008

Then write the request. *Nodnod* I didn't know when I made Cailet, and my "crystal" disciple is now a white who totally doesn't match her colour, because the DMs I talked to didn't even know about Gems, so they didn't know they were needing a request.

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Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.

Yee-haw!

Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

~Vasynfjall Friggsdottir~

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 1:05 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Mja. I got a Requested char allready, I'll settle with it. Last time I dug my nose into research I came up one week later, with the cellphone full of Text-Msg saying "wtf are you!".

Anyhow, My prev.Question - Any good books beside Draconomicon that covers Dragon disciples? Or is it the best one?

P Three

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 1:13 AM

Player

Joined: 18 Dec 2008

that's the best I've found, I found some on the wikis, but bear in mind the 4e rule, as in, don't use any of it.

_________________

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.

Yee-haw!

Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

~Vasynfjall Friggsdottir~

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 1:15 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

The Forgotten realms wiki is ... Seductive. It's pretty picture and good layout ensnares even the most cautious seeker.
Having said that, I think it's worthless - Considering we play in a completely different setting. Whenever I searched with it, I had to dubble-check with source-books.... Tedious work.

But strangely, When it comes to Gem Dragons - The Forgotten Realms wiki is -Dead-. There's barely any info at all.
Same goes with Dragon Disciples.

Edit - My curiosity has gotten the best of me, Currently searching gem-Dragons.
But alas, Im reading the Draconomicon at the moment, and there's 'NO' info on gem dragons. At all.

P Three

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 1:22 AM

Player

Joined: 18 Dec 2008

No, the actual wiki. On Wikipedia. You'll still have some crosschecking to do, but there's a bit of stuff.

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Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.

Yee-haw!

Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

~Vasynfjall Friggsdottir~

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 1:23 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

The http://www.wikipedia.com? Seriously? You found info on Gem dragons there?

edit - Well look at that...
edit 2 - The Amia wiki have Zero info about dragons, Save for Silver dragons. That's the only info it have about any dragon.

PaladinOfSune

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 1:44 AM

Player

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK

The Draconomicon is hands-down the best source of information on dragons that are metallic and chromatic. As for dragon disciples themselves, there isn't much.

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P Three

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 2:24 AM

Player

Joined: 18 Dec 2008

The generic accepted lore is that dragon disciples are people of innate magical ability (i.e., sorcerers or Bards) who identify with a particular subtype of dragons and, in the desire to become more like that dragon (insomuch as any human can ever be "like" a dragon), they perform rites and such to either awaken their inherited Draconic blood or usurp certain characteristics.

THEY ARE NOT QUARTER/HALF/THIRD/EIGHTH DRAGONS. No, Amia can't stop you from doing that. But it's generally looked down on. Cailet, my would-be crystal, has no idea how much draconic she is. She figures it's some great-eighteentimes-grandparent, and she'd be about right. It's a tiny little touch, enough to give you the magic. The focus from there is in awakening and "binding" yourself to that dragon, it's artificial, so to speak. You can't become that race, you're pretty much just binding yourself to another set of values and morals.

Dragons are, by nature, extremely, /extremely/ rigid in alignment. A gold, for example, will never ever ever be anything but a paragon of LG. A Shadow will never ever not be CE and eat babies (SARIS). They're one of the only races that /has/ no exceptions. While your Disciple obviously may differ, in /trying/ to become like that dragon, and becoming like it, you're influenced by its nature, and thus you will never stray far (more than 1 alignment step) from its base alignment. Cailet is a problem because I made her personality to be Crystal (CN, playful, very inquisitive, though the pranks can sometimes be deadly, 'cause oops, people squish easy.) before I found out I couldn't make her a Crystal. So she's...way the hell off the scale. And Elrien probably shouldn't exist, but whatever, I like 'er.

This is also why paladins often reserve the right to go "Chromatic disciple? No, you're not nice. Ever. *SMITE*" You can maybe be neutral. But the simple fact is, the more like "your" dragon you are, the more you will adhere to their values.

A Dragon Disciple may look at themselves as Dragonkin. Humans look at you as a freak, and dragons regard you as that mentally retarded cousin that plays with poop that they don't admit to in polite company. You're not family, you're...well, you're what serves the food.

I think that's about it...guys, did I miss anything?

_________________

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.

Yee-haw!

Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

~Vasynfjall Friggsdottir~

Herr Delta Houdini

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 3:15 AM

Player

Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England

Question on Devils and deals, will they accept deals of exchange on things -other- than souls, like say rare items.

E.g

You want something from the Devil like say a Summon, in return the Devil may want a rare item that can't be obtained by themselves.

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Previously known as: Anubis

TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 3:19 AM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

I doubt a devil gives full service for one little bauble.

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Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Halecta

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 3:24 AM

Player

Joined: 10 Jul 2008

Not much is written about the neutral gem dragons, other then being the only dragons that have psionic abilities

Dark Immolation

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 3:28 AM

Developer

Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"

TormakSaber wrote:

I doubt a devil gives full service for one little bauble.

Yep. For something like that, you need to pull of their foot and hold it for ransom, while you trap people with your magical bag. If you get this reference, you are awesome.

TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 7:26 AM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

BTW. Re: Gem Dragons, try Monster Manual 2.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 11:30 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

TormakSaber wrote:

BTW. Re: Gem Dragons, try Monster Manual 2.

Why did they choose to put it in the monster manual? I Question this decision!

Edit - Nope. Nothing in the monster Manual 2. See if you can find it.

Edit 2 - Nothing on MM3 either, Teron

Last edited by Mobile_Svensk on Wed, Jan 12 2011, 11:37 AM, edited 1 time in total.

TeroSNS

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 11:31 AM

Player

Joined: 26 Jan 2009

maybe they're on MM3?

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 13:27 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

AxlLeigh wrote:

Gem dragons, because they are psionic, /must/ be requested beforehand.

Big Question - I can play the character -until- he makes the decision to delve into the aspect of Dragon Disciplining, Right?
At the point where you take your RDD Levels, You must go to the Forum and request the Gem dragon Disciple class, Correct?

Edit - My point is that you're requesting the Disciple Class, Not the character. Correct?

Maias227

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 13:50 PM

Player

Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Location: Denmark (GMT+1)

Anubis wrote:

Well if you're thinking of bargaining it into service by holding up a wonderforged or ioun stone it seems pretty frail but there's a popular event that would point towards they do prize something else than souls. More specifically I am thinking of the demon in Baldur's Gate 2, its head over heels to get its hand on a silver dragon egg and I would assume it would have to be items of a very special nature before it would interest demons.

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DustSpray101

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 15:20 PM

Player

Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale

Races of the Dragon mentions dragon disciples briefly otherwise check your DMG for the actual prestige class.

AxlLeigh wrote:

A Dragon Disciple may look at themselves as Dragonkin. Humans look at you as a freak, and dragons regard you as that mentally retarded cousin that plays with poop that they don't admit to in polite company. You're not family, you're...well, you're what serves the food.

I think that's about it...guys, did I miss anything?

Eh... I've seen Dragons look upon disciples as interesting puppets. It boils down to the personality of the Dragon and what the disciple is using the power they received for. Metallic dragons also would be far less likely to eat their disciples unless they abuse the bloodline.

Otherwise, from personal experience in Amia, kobolds think themselves above such beings on the grand hierarchy of Dragon blood.

Dragons (this includes Wyvens and anything else with sub-type dragon)
Half dragons
Kobolds
Experiments ((Dragon Disciples))

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Sven <=={o===========>
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Last edited by DustSpray101 on Wed, Jan 12 2011, 15:31 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 15:30 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

DustSpray101 wrote:

Races of the Dragon mentions dragon disciples briefly otherwise check your DMG for the actual prestige class.

DMG?

DustSpray101

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 15:32 PM

Player

Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale

Dungeon Master's Guide

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Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 16:09 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

*Grmblr* So far i've Downloaded Four books... this better be it.

P Three

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 16:17 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Dec 2008

Very_Svensk wrote:

AxlLeigh wrote:

Gem dragons, because they are psionic, /must/ be requested beforehand.

If you /know/ you're going to make him a gem DD, then you need to request him first. The /character/ and all that goes with it, is what needs the request. Otherwise, just make him, like, a brass. Same basic idea, you can have the same alignment, but no request needed, because no psionics

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Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.

Yee-haw!

Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

~Vasynfjall Friggsdottir~

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 16:30 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Wait, Isn't it the 'Class' you're requesting really? Not the char...

P Three

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 16:34 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Dec 2008

Yes and no. You're going into it /knowing/ your char is going to evolve into X. In this case, a gem disciple that needs approval. It's one of those rare things where you have to plan for the future because it's going to unfold into this. Request it, get it approved. If he happens to decide he's going to be...a bluekin, instead, because of RP, that's fine. But cover your bases, and don't wind up with a char you can't play. Believe me, going that route /sucks/.

If that were the case, I could just request the class for Cailet, because she did RPly fulfill everything, and uh...doesn't have the kind of intellect where she should be using psionics anyway, as any victim of her tackle-hugs can attest.

_________________

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.

Yee-haw!

Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

~Vasynfjall Friggsdottir~

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 16:45 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Blast it. And here i was thinking that rolling a dice and letting pure chance decide was a good idea. Now i've got my nose into something 'Extremely' interesting i don't want to get away from.

IronAngel

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 17:23 PM

Player

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Well, that's a DM call. I really don't see why you would have to determine it beforehand. Make the character, play it, and request Gem Dragon Disciplinehood when you get there. If it's denied, you just go with something else. I know some DMs have sometimes had different opinions on similar (but more major) stuff, but it should generally be no biggie and in this case it's almost irrelevant. The downside is that you can't freely change your PC according to feedback if you've already made him, and you may very well not get to play what you want. If somebody told me I couldn't request a special dragon heritage for my existing PC who is just about to enter the Prestige Class? I'd tell them to... well, you get the point. There's a difference between being careful and letting others walk all over you for petty reasons.

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The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!

P Three

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 17:31 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Dec 2008

Well, but I was told when I got Cailet "there" that it had to be requested before the char was made, by Tormak. Otherwise, I totally would have quit playing her and requested that. Hence why she ended up a whitekin-that-should-have-been-copper.

_________________

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.

Yee-haw!

Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

~Vasynfjall Friggsdottir~

IronAngel

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 17:39 PM

Player

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Well, an individual DM telling you something doesn't make it a team policy. It's been contested before, and I'm sure the team is still capable of listening to a sensible case. It doesn't say so in the rules, and it's nowhere near common sense (rather the opposite, and no one's ever been albe to explain it in a sensible manner), so you can't be expected to request the class beforehand. I guess it's safer to make the request first, but personally I wouldn't want to roll over and get pushed around unfairly.

This has nothing to do with Lore Questions, though.

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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:

TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 17:42 PM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

You want a Gem, you request it. Period.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

IronAngel

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 17:43 PM

Player

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Yes, but when you're actually taking the class. You don't need to request it beforehand, whatever Tormak says. No doubt he won't approve it, but there's an entire team capable of sensible dialogue and fair consideration.

A new rule that isn't properly documented and made available can't be enforced on unkowning players in retrospect. The fact that you need to clarify the issue instead of refer to an official post is evidence enough that there isn't a clear and public policy on the matter. Of course, because approval of requests is completely arbitrary and subject to your will, you can always choose to deny these kind of requests. But that makes it nothing but a statement of personal intent and just a guess anyway, because you couldn't possibly know your decision on a request you haven't read yet. However, if the entire team subscribed to such arbitrary principles and revelled in hampering the players' RP, I bet Amia would soon find itself rather empty. While technically in DM power, the ethical quality of such behavior is quite obvious. That leads to the conclusion that because Amia still has players, there must be reasonable DMs with a good sense of fairness and prudence. Therefore you can request anything reasonable, and this is clearly reasonable.

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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:

Last edited by IronAngel on Wed, Jan 12 2011, 17:58 PM, edited 1 time in total.

DustSpray101

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 17:56 PM

Player

Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale

Dragon disciples in general? No request.

Dragon disciples who's powers clearly fall under psionics? Request the [removed] out of it.

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

IronAngel

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 18:04 PM

Player

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

DustSpray101 wrote:

Dragon disciples in general? No request.

Dragon disciples who's powers clearly fall under psionics? Request the [removed] out of it.

Of course. However, Tormak's stance is that if you made the character yesterday (with no indications of any draconic or unusual powers yet, just your run-of-the-mill sorcerer), you can't request a special background/access to special RDD stuff today, because you either broke the rules by assuming a history you had no right to assume or you didn't assume that history and therefore your character doesn't have it. Logical in some other context, maybe, but he fails to understand that RP is all about shaping reality (the past included) on the go and inventing new things to serve the story. A new PC starts with open possibilities that are either realized or closed during RP. It is perfectly logical to say that Sorcerer X at character creation might have Red Dragon, Raksasha, Gem Dragon or Elemental blood. When the time comes to decide the reality of one possibility and close the others, you make a request. This doesn't mean you "already played" something that needs a request. It means that the reality and past of your character is shaped right there and then.

If Tormak was consistent, he would also have to deny all item requests related to the character's past unless they were articulated at character creation, at least if they involve some NPC interaction that DMs need to approve.

And that, I'm sure we can agree, is not quite reasonable.

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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:

P Three

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 19:09 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Dec 2008

And yet some of us don't have the luxury of giving DMs the finger.

Request first.

_________________

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.

Yee-haw!

Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

~Vasynfjall Friggsdottir~

TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 19:12 PM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Make the request before you make the character. It is simple, and contrary to what the resident backseat (ex) DM thinks, it is actually the stance of the general DM team.

If one does not wish to make a request for a character, you may select one of the standard offered 11 dragon types for your character to be a dragon disciple of on Amia.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

IronAngel

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 19:54 PM

Player

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

AxlLeigh wrote:

And yet some of us don't have the luxury of giving DMs the finger.

Request first.

It's not a luxury, it's your job as a player, tbh - it's not like it's fun to be the town fool. You're the checks and balances, you're supposed to question and criticize (which is not to be confused with whining and baseless accusations).

...I really miss Alpeh. >_<

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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:

Last edited by IronAngel on Wed, Jan 12 2011, 20:05 PM, edited 2 times in total.

P Three

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 19:57 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Dec 2008

Yeah, my life on this server is shit enough without pissing off the Powers That Be, thanks. I'll duck my head and shut up like a good little girl, I know what's good for me.

_________________

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.

Yee-haw!

Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

~Vasynfjall Friggsdottir~

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:05 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

But if we take my situation as example. I've made the bard, advanced to level Four and it's having a fancy time trolling Bendir and Cordor with limericks and rhymes.

My issue becomes this; That by merrily rolling a dice, i came up with the suggestion of possibly making a Gem Dragon Disciple.

This results in that I can no longer play the character; And the Team will probably deny the Request immediately since I have already started playing the character.

Last edited by Mobile_Svensk on Tue, Jan 18 2011, 10:32 AM, edited 1 time in total.

PaladinOfSune

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:08 PM

Player

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK

That's not how RDDs work, though. People don't get to roll a die and pick a dragon they want to be a disciple of, they just happen to be born with enough blood of a particular dragon to be used as a catalyst. It's decided from birth.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:11 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Bollocks. You can Roll a bard, and about halfway the character decides to seek out his/her potential - Then stumbles upon the tiiiiny fragment of dragon-blood, and decides to enhance this tiiiny fragment thus becoming a Dragon Disciple.

P Three

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:12 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Dec 2008

I've read lore that goes both ways, tbh. Either you are or you aren't, and-or you get to pick, because not ALL sorcerous blood is from Dragons. It could be faeborn.

_________________

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.

Yee-haw!

Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

~Vasynfjall Friggsdottir~

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:14 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

My opinion
Some characters are unaware, Some characters are aware of their inherited dragon potential. But the fact stands that no character can alter their history. The type of Dragonblood is already decided upon by their great great great great .... great great great ...great great grand mother, who happened to shag that (Insert random Dragon here) while on her holiday.

Edit - Naturally, You as the player stands as the author, and hence CAN alter history. But it's a lot more interesting if you just threw a dice and said "oh, Well look at that... My Character's super great granny shagged a (insert random dragon here), I will push my character towards that direction henceforth."

PaladinOfSune

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:19 PM

Player

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK

You don't seem to understand what I was saying, actually.

If you want to roll a dice to do it, that's your call, but that's your own risk to make if you're including request-only PCs in your rolls.

_________________

"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."

DustSpray101

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:23 PM

Player

Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale

Everyone approaches character development differently. I think Tormak understands that pretty well as do all that moderate us players as DMs.

Make a request to take the RDD class for Gem Dragon in the request forums before even taking the PRC. Explain the character in depth as best you are able and let it go from there. Come with a willingness to cooperate and a full understanding that the outcome could very well turn out to be a "No" and things should go well one way or another.

This ugly in-fighting has nothing to do with lore you guys so let's stop it.

_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:25 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

PaladinOfSune wrote:

You don't seem to understand what I was saying, actually.

If you want to roll a dice to do it, that's your call, but that's your own risk to make if you're including request-only PCs in your rolls.

Aye. It's a risk you take.
My viewpoint is Completely IC - And hence doesn't take into account the loops you need to jump when you accidentally roll a Request only PRC.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:35 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Anyway - The character's allready made and the direction have been dictated by the gods of fate. I might as well just request the PRC

So...
Does anybody else have any info about Dragon disciples?
And Gem dragons, I'd love some more info about them!

Because I can't continue playing him, apparently, Unless he is approved.

Last edited by Mobile_Svensk on Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:52 PM, edited 1 time in total.

IronAngel

Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 21:52 PM

Player

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Svensk: there is very little lore about DDs. Just read the Prestige Class description in the appropriate book (PHB or DMG? Or find it online) and go with that. There's no more lore about it. There's a lot of speculation, and I think it involves intentional, religious-like rituals to awaken your blood and in the process, become more like your ancestor. This means a change in your psychological state as you try to rouse the urges of the dragon inside you. I'm inclined to think that even if you don't want that, tapping into the physical and magical powers also affects your judgement.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Yes, but here's the key issue I contested. In purely IC terms, the blood has always been there. Choosing a class or making a request aren't exactly IC actions, though. And more importantly, this is a story. And a story has no reality before it's created. Your PC wasn't born, you created him from scratch. A sorcerer character doesn't initially have any specific kind of heritage, he just has something supernatural in his background. It could be a dragon, it could be a fey, it could be a fiend or it could be a magical accident. The real state of the matter is undefined: the truth value is indeterminate. (Or there is a logical gap, you could say.) A sorcerer doesn't have a dragon heritage until it's written into the story. Of course continuity is assumed from an IC perspective, but this is the decisive difference between OOC requests and storytelling on one hand, and the coherence of the world from an IC perspective on the other. From an IC perspective, the matter is unknown. From an OOC perspective (such as that of requests), there is no predefined answer.

It's a difficult issue to put into logical terms, because of the difference of reality and story, and the infinite possible worlds parallelling both two worlds. Either way, I think the practical issue is clear: being anal about formalities doesn't really help anyone. If you think a request is worth approving, it shouldn't matter whether the character already exists but hasn't discovered his heritage yet. If you think it should be denied, you can deny it and it turns out the character never had such a heritage in the first place. What are the practical implications you want to avoid by your (supposed) ruling? I don't see Tormak's big deal, as long as a player doesn't assume and manifest anything special until approval. It's pointless bureucracy.

I just hope you see my point. There's a practical difference between someone who claims they've always been a half-demon and just now realizes they need to request it, and someone who hasn't made any claims or assumptions yet and wants to see if they can incorporate a completely new element into the story. One should stop playing their unapproved character, the other has done nothing wrong.

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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:

Halecta

Posted: Thu, Jan 13 2011, 1:09 AM

Player

Joined: 10 Jul 2008

2nd edition monstrous manual 2 is where you will need to look for gem dragons and was expanded alot with the Council of Wyrms campaign setting and the interactions Gem Dragon have with Mettalic and Chromatic Dragons. Gem dragons got updated to 3.5 edition when the expanded psionics handbook was released, and Obsidian Dragon was added to the Gem familiy.

In 4th edition gem dragons are basically removed.

Gem Dragons also follow Sardior (God of Gem Dragons), who is also called the Ruby Dragon as the primary diety.

A Crystal Dragon (which was the topic of discussion) likes to play pranks and cause mischievous, and try to learn more about the world around them and are always Chaotic Neutral. They live in polar regions and have lairs with a open roof so they can gaze at the stars at night.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Thu, Jan 13 2011, 1:29 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Any 3.5 Sourcebook i can check out, that covers gem dragons?

Halecta

Posted: Thu, Jan 13 2011, 1:46 AM

Player

Joined: 10 Jul 2008

The best sourcebook for gem dragons is in second edition and is located in the Council of Wyrms campaign setting, as it went into detail about them. The second edition material was only updated to 3.5 stats.

You can find basic information in the 3rd edition Monstrous Manual 2, but the best information is in 2nd edition, which is still used in 3rd edition.

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