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wereguy2
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 Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 0:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Note that this is not in Improving Amia. It is not a suggestion, but merely a conversation starter that may possibly lead to some (I hope).
Well. Yes. Grind is bad. Boring, not particularly realistic and plagued with a general lack of RP. Oh, sure, this is not to say that people do not do so, but, in my experience, the majority do not really bother, being preoccupied with making da bad guyz fall down. Party chat, OOC loot distribution, *click... click... click...* etc... In fact, RP tends to actually be somewhat difficult, unless everyone stops after killing a mob, which they do not, for the sake of time efficiency, without which the whole exercise would feel a whole lot more futile.
Now, keep in mind that I am not talking about ways to improve this, let's put this aside. I, along with others, I am sure, wish to see alternatives to the regular "Go there, kill this" formula - XP rewards for RP, beyond that job system I so abhor!
I see Arelith has something of the sort implemented, though I have no idea how it works, only having played there for an hour or so.
Anyway, yeah, go. Discuss.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 0:48 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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1. Job System. Works fine.
2. You don't become a better swordsman by performing in a soap opera. Hence, no progression. That's how it's supposed to be.
3. ... Wait, what's the discussion to be had?
_________________  You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 1:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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RP 4 DCs 2 lvl ur PCs.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Dieu_Le_Fera
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 1:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Philadelphia
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ive been on other servers like "Arelith" that has an XP drip system meaning the more you stand around and talk the more your XP drip gets then when you hunt you lose your XP drip to compensate... it can be abused though so i personally do not like it... how would a fighter learn how to fight better from standing around... how would a wizard gain more knowledge by sitting around a forest and BSing in fluff RP? Just my two cents here...
_________________  "It is by the holy beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning, it is by Java alone that I set my mind in motion."
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Grymia
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 1:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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I have to admit I myself like the Job system for my non-violent XP gaining purposes, though that's me.
That said, yeah, Job system + DCs = good non-combat alternatives.
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wereguy2
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 1:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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But the job system gives sooo little XP! Burning DCs is just wasteful! *shudders*
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Selmak
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 2:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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The Job System gives pretty good XP considering that many of the jobs do not put your character in harm's way. And indeed, if you focus solely on producing resources for other crafters to use (or in other words specialise) you have a higher rate of success and can harvest more resources at once. Though it's fair to say that you can only reap the benefits of choosing two or three jobs if you've gained enough levels to reach the second rank or so. I would know, since I've been in and out of a test module like a yo-yo testing different jobs.  You're not going to find very many groups that are willing to slow down and RP in between killing things, unless you cut yourself off from this 'hunting' BS and focus just on roleplaying. If groups can't form on a purely OOC basis because nobody is interested in that, then people who initially log on for a quick hack and slash will get bored and either leave or look for something else that they can do. Like roleplaying to try and get a group together, for instance. Or just roleplaying for the hell of it.
Last edited by Selmak on Sun, Mar 06 2011, 2:13 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Logicality
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 2:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
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Just saying, arguing that you don't become a better swordsman by standing around talking means nothing when you consider that almost every feat/skill increase/ability increase/new spell anyone takes is only assumed to have had background RP. Props to those that actively RP practicing the stuff they plan to take on level up, but honestly, even in PnP, that's typically behind-the-scenes stuff.
It could very well be argued that if we can go ahead and assume our characters were learning the feats they take throughout their previous level without actually explicitly detailing such things through roleplay, we can also assume our characters are actually out practicing their swordplay and spellweaving without actually going out and killing monsters.
Grinding is boring, but I would advise against an XP drip system. On small servers with a mature playerbase, it works, but it is not for Amia. As such, the job system remains the only viable automated means of gaining XP sans combat.
Frankly, considering how easy it is to level to 30 through mindless hacking, I think the job system could stand to give more XP - certainly less than could be attained by actually going out and interacting with the world, but at the moment, the amount it gives is pitiful. If anyone really wanted to quickly get to 30, the job system would not be their vehicle...
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
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Murex
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 2:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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wereguy2 wrote: But the job system gives sooo little XP! Burning DCs is just wasteful! *shudders* Deal with it?
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corypx
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 2:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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wereguy2 wrote: But the job system gives sooo little XP! Burning DCs is just wasteful! *shudders* job systems is not ment to be faster then combat leveling, and yes DCs are kind of wasteful. but you dont have to get level 30 in a week, you can do it slow and let it take a month or more. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
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Selmak
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 2:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Logicality wrote: I think the job system could stand to give more XP - certainly less than could be attained by actually going out and interacting with the world, but at the moment, the amount it gives is pitiful. If anyone really wanted to quickly get to 30, the job system would not be their vehicle... Suppose you can't find a group, and you don't fancy soloing, and you just want to kill some time and gain a little XP? Do a job. You've risked nothing and gained something. Sniff at it if you will, but I think that the problem is that people see small numbers and automatically assume 'this sucks' while forgetting about the nice haul of XP they will get if they process resources. The job system XP was scaled back because it was a little bit too good, if I recall correct. It still is pretty good considering the non-existent risk factor.
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wereguy2
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 2:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Time is also a factor. I don't want to waste it on low-gain jobs (Which I, admittedly, know little about).
There is not much risk in grind. You die, and you can just log off and do something else for a few hours.
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Selmak
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 2:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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You don't have to waste your time though. Harvesting jobs for instance, allow you to re-harvest roughly every couple of minutes. So if you have ten minutes to spare, or you only want to spend ten minutes there, that's about five opportunities to harvest. Even at the lowest level of a harvesting job, you have a 50% chance of success, so on average ten minutes will get you two or three successes.
After that ten minutes of waiting if you don't have a party going then yeah you could just log off, and you'll still have the XP, and you won't be dead. Which means when you log back in you can do your job for ten minutes while you see if anyone's wanting to party, and then log out again. It's perfect right up until the server is full, and even then there's a second server where your job can be done.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 3:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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You want to be a level 30 without any of the work that getting to 30 entails?
Go away.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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wereguy2
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 3:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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That is a fair enough point. I am not necessarily saying that changes MUST be implemented, but simply asking for ideas of possible alternatives. The purpose of a game is enjoyment, and I believe that this should be found at all points throughout it, not just the endgame - in this case, level 30. And yes, I do see the inherent flaws in this - "Make grind enjoyable", "Visit more areas" etc.
I do not like that one even has to state that "work" must be exerted into playing a game (And I am not being critical of anyone here - such is the nature of many RPGs).
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Selmak
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 4:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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There is enjoyment to be had, if you just shut out the character sheet and focus on the character.
The guys who try to get to 30 as quick as possible are the ones who are losing out, because their characters barely have a connection with anyone or anything, and will soon be forgotten. I've seen players compulsively shoot off to 30 and then start a new character. I don't know why, because I never asked them. But I suspect it has something to do with the grass not being greener on the other side of the thirty.
If you play just for the sake of playing an open-ended game, then you neatly avoid that problem because it's the connections you make with players and their characters which will make playing enjoyable and worthwhile.
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corypx
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 4:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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wereguy2 wrote: Time is also a factor. I don't want to waste it on low-gain jobs (Which I, admittedly, know little about).
There is not much risk in grind. You die, and you can just log off and do something else for a few hours. your two staments are silly. if time is a factor and you dont want to waste time geting small amounts of EXP at no risk, but you then saying grinding death is not a risk because you log off and do something else for afew hours... how does that work, if every time you die you log off for 2+ hours, thats 60+ times you could have done something with 2min cool down job system. I will say my only problem with the job system is the low buy value people want to pay, they want 100 logs thats a min of 200mins, thats 3hours and 20mins, and because you dont have 100% chance its offen 70% so try more like 4+hours and they want to pay near nothing. so next time you try and offer someone 100k for a massive stockpile of 100+ job system stuff, remember in the 4+ hours it took them to get it, they could have made 1mil+ hunting....so be kind and make a real offer to keep the job system people alive. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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wereguy2
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 5:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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I would still be getting more XP for the amount of time I spend ingame.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 5:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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To be honest, I use grinding as a break from RPing. That's cause it's a little harder to RP while grinding, though I've done it and have nothing against it mind you. Just is a bit harder hah. In any case, the only time grinding gets boring has been lately since Tyrus is closing on level 30 and it just takes so long to level.
But other than that, I don't see any need for changes. I love a nice grind session, but since level 15ish I've been more RP focused with him. Hell it took forever to get to level 20 because I had so much more fun RPing. And so 25-30 is going a bit slow, but I'm feeling pretty happy with the grinding and such.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Nysor
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 5:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2008
Location: Wherever it is, it better not be cold
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Grinding sucks, admittedly. Its why I only have 2 level 30 characters. The other ones, well... just sit still because I can't bring myself to hunt. But if I'm not hunting, they're not learning anything combat specific.
_________________
Nysor Shorshanis: A squirrel in his own right
Solrend Inignus: The Kossuthian cleric who is "hot, but not in that way"
Adin Twitterleaf: Crazy elven trickster.
Isaac Kley: Young gimp of a sorcerer.
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corypx
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 6:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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wereguy2 wrote: I would still be getting more XP for the amount of time I spend ingame. but you just said if you die...that is a risk no matter what you say because it forces you to respawn and lose EXP/gold to keep playing and being ingame, or log off till reset and get a free raise, so the time you are forced offline by your logic of making hunting being risk free I still count against you. your only geting more exp if you can handle the monster alone and not die, or if you can find a group to hunt with. job system you can solo, dont have to wait for areas,offen wont die doing them, and the payoff of some jobs IC is much more then vender loot. I have 1400+ logs, yes it took along time to get them but for new area requests,rebuilding are requests...ect all use job system stuff now, you cant throw useless gold at the problem anymore, DMs want the supplies you can get them IC now. you should know better then anyone Tarich you IC want my job system stuff, so is it really a waste of time? _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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wereguy2
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 6:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Actually, Tarich couldn't care less - it's Gorthod who wants that.  Also, I am regarding the job system in terms of XP gain, not its products. I don't really find that death is much of a detriment at all. I really don't mind logging off until the next reset - I always have something else to do anyway.
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 6:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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corypx wrote: wereguy2 wrote: Time is also a factor. I don't want to waste it on low-gain jobs (Which I, admittedly, know little about).
There is not much risk in grind. You die, and you can just log off and do something else for a few hours. your two staments are silly. if time is a factor and you dont want to waste time geting small amounts of EXP at no risk, but you then saying grinding death is not a risk because you log off and do something else for afew hours... how does that work, if every time you die you log off for 2+ hours, thats 60+ times you could have done something with 2min cool down job system. I will say my only problem with the job system is the low buy value people want to pay, they want 100 logs thats a min of 200mins, thats 3hours and 20mins, and because you dont have 100% chance its offen 70% so try more like 4+hours and they want to pay near nothing. so next time you try and offer someone 100k for a massive stockpile of 100+ job system stuff, remember in the 4+ hours it took them to get it, they could have made 1mil+ hunting....so be kind and make a real offer to keep the job system people alive.
Sorry for not having much else to say to this thread.
>_>;;
_________________
BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Selmak
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 6:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Well, I see no reason here to change the Job System XP from what it's been set to. If anything I am more inclined to keep it the way it is than before the topic was started. I'm sorry, but there are other ways to make your time more worthwhile, it's not my job to boost you up to 30 asap.
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corypx
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 6:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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wereguy2 wrote: Actually, Tarich couldn't care less - it's Gorthod who wants that. Also, I am regarding the job system in terms of XP gain, not its products. yeah but thats the wrong way to look at it, you need to take everything into acount. job system is now a key part in amia, befor all we had was gold we payed gold for upgrades to zones,or to build a new one...ect but with the job system, DMs might ask for you to get chairs,tables...ect made for a room if you ask for a room with them,if I remember correct Dale when they requested marketstalls, they had to pay abit of gold but also wood,cloth...ect from the job system to build them and get them added less EXP gain at the cost of lesser risker,no group needed,no waiting for a zone to be free/waiting for respawns AND being needed server wide to effect the growth of a area. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
Last edited by corypx on Sun, Mar 06 2011, 6:37 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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splat_phastkyl
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 6:35 AM |
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Joined: 18 Aug 2010
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I have to say as Master level bowyer with Chase that a daily routine of making bows has contributed well to my level advancement. You just have to put the time and effort into it. And you can reach Master in one job at lvl 16.
Of course for production jobs, you have to find the raw and/or refined materials, or, as they said above, hook up with a partner who can produce the raw or refined stuff.
I got lucky and found someone had been practicing their Sawyer skills. Provided me with tons of planks to make bows with. That helped to kick me up a few levels when I was in my low 20s.
So it can be done.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 9:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Peaceful XP in excess or as the sole form of XP is bad because it implies that we're here to cater to peaceful SecondLife RP. Amia gives its players a lot of freedom with the way they want to play their characters, but the fundamental premiss should always be that we're playing an adventure game. That game does have room for some non-fighting roles like merchants and politicians, but they shouldn't become the norm or the target audience. It's not about fair gain and investment, balance of time vs. risk between the Job system and mobs or anything like that. At the end of the day, it's about whether we want to keep Amia an adventuring server or turn it into a social crafting server.
The way to fix the boring grind is not to dismiss it altogether but to make every hunt an exciting adventure. I've made suggestions as to how this can be advanced with module design, but ultimately the power and responsibility to make it fun is on the players.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Murex
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 10:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Not all of us find PVM a bore. 
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jimbono1
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 11:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Location: England
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Murex wrote: Not all of us find PVM a bore. IMO. real PvE (Or PvM For you lot.) is in WoW. Or DM events. I do not really particularly find grinding endless mobs enjoyable. Even with RP that goes with it. Because there is no atmosphere created by the enemies. Sure, there is still the atmosphere of the party, but no sense of realism when a mob of 6 guys appear out of thin air against heavily enchanted beings. Surely some of them would flee when outnumbered by such odds? Especially after just seeing their friends being cut down? _________________ Khaldun Menetnashte KhalfaniVictor WilkinsonSilent2001 wrote: Jimbono1 is my favourite. ^totally not a lie or anything.
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 11:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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jimbono1 wrote: Murex wrote: Not all of us find PVM a bore. IMO. real PvE (Or PvM For you lot.) is in WoW. Or DM events. I do not really particularly find grinding endless mobs enjoyable. Even with RP that goes with it. Because there is no atmosphere created by the enemies. Sure, there is still the atmosphere of the party, but no sense of realism when a mob of 6 guys appear out of thin air against heavily enchanted beings. Surely some of them would flee when outnumbered by such odds? Especially after just seeing their friends being cut down? That is a fine and good idea, just not a rebuttal to: Murex wrote: Not all of us find PVM a bore.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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jimbono1
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 12:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Location: England
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Silence!
_________________ Khaldun Menetnashte KhalfaniVictor WilkinsonSilent2001 wrote: Jimbono1 is my favourite. ^totally not a lie or anything.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 12:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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More variety to gaining XP is in the works, always. It just trickles into the module in little bits instead of hugeass u-turns in the general development direction.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 12:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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You know the first time I made a challenging spawn a week later I had to fix it because everyone bitched it.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 13:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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MoshingChris wrote: You know the first time I made a challenging spawn a week later I had to fix it because everyone bitched it. Did the xp commensurate with the challenge? _________________ 
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Logicality
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 15:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
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TormakSaber wrote: You want to be a level 30 without any of the work that getting to 30 entails?
Go away. You're putting words in people's mouths now... the OP was asking for an alternative to the normal means of gaining XP, which is consistently monotonous, not a way to "be a level 30 without any of the work that getting to 30 entails". Occasionally, when you've got a good party, killing monsters and great RP can go hand-in-hand, but this doesn't seem to happen often on Amia. Selmak, I agree that job system XP, for example, should be of a lesser amount compared to activities which actually involve a sense of risk - this is, after all, an adventuring game, and, as Iron said, we should want to keep it that way. However, one can outlevel a given area and still get experience from killing hostiles in that area - to the effect that one can thereby relatively steadily take in XP from that area without any real risk. It is a small amount compared to the XP one could be gaining in fighting encounters of a higher level, but the point is that, though it involves just as little risk as might using the job system, it doles out a far greater net reward. On the character sheet, at least. Glad to hear a greater variety of gaining XP is trickling in, anyway.
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
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Lutra
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 16:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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get a lot of DC, this is how I am lvling my characters. I have no time to hunt.
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Glyph
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 20:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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ugh, old old debate. like I said the last fifteen times, increase xp. grinding IS boring but what can you do.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 21:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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You can already hit 30 in 2 days. Increase XP?
Go away!
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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P Three
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 21:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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TormakSaber wrote: You can already hit 30 in 2 days. Increase XP?
Go away! Sad as it is....QFE. And holy shit, if i could get to 30 in 2 days, I'd never leave. _________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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Dwagin
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 22:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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In Feudal Europe, those peasants would have kicked the Knight's arses if they ground job xp like they tilled earth.
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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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Cerpin Taxt
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 22:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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TormakSaber wrote: You can already hit 30 in 2 days. Increase XP?
Go away! guide please
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Sun, Mar 06 2011, 22:51 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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To be quite honest, I'm not an extreme fan of how XP works with the job system. In a few cases, I see how it could translate. Like successfully performing jobs like Arcanist seems like it would advance your XP if you were a sorcerer or wizard. Theologer and Preach if you were a Paladin or Cleric. Heck, even jobs like Templar, Vigilante, Big Game Hunter, and that sort of thing for the melee classes.
But grooming hair and beekeeping doesn't make you a better fencer... maybe in some sort of wax on-wax off sort of training it helps you better understand another concept, but at it's bare truth, those things just don't overlap.
However, I am satisfied in the way it provides an alternative to hunting. I've never used it in lieu of adventurering solely(as it is my belief that one becomes a better adventurer generally through adventurering), but nonetheless I'm happy that the option at least exists for other people's enjoyment. But again, I still have a little unease with it in the way that it is hooked up to regular adventuring XP.
You really don't ICly have to be a lv 18 adventurer to be a master carpenter. But you do mechanically. My only suggestions for the system currently would be to re-rig it to somehow work off of practice(where you actually get better at a job the more you do it rather than ECL-related points) and that the jobs that actually give you adventuring/combat XP only do so if you have a class that is somehow related to it. The jobs that have no classes related to them would just not give any to anyone, but you could advance and make money all the same.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, Mar 07 2011, 0:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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What would be interesting to see is a crafting system with its own level progression, and added Master Craft at higher (craft) levels. That requires quite a bit of work though, so no idea how feasible it is, especially as we have a job system in place too.
As for the grinding part: Introduce soft caps on xp. That way you won't grind because, well, it won't help you. Then again, that idea was discussed before, and seeing it is not implemented I suppose it was shot down.
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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Mar 07 2011, 0:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Cerpin Taxt wrote: TormakSaber wrote: You can already hit 30 in 2 days. Increase XP?
Go away! guide please No. The fact that you can do it is an abomination that sould be fixed, by soft caps, to force players to stay at certain level progressions for X amount of time to prevent overnight level 30's and to force the establishment of character personalities instead of the trent of ignoring roleplay until you're level 30.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Mar 07 2011, 0:37 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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^I am thrilled if that comes to fruition.
About the job thing, I've seen it on other server, specifically Noctar's Noble Realm. But the actual feasibility of converting the current Job system to point based depends on how willing our Devs are to refangle what is a pretty well working system, except from a few key IC principles.
I'd imagine it'd work by you having a chance to increase your "skill" in a certain job, partially dependent on luck, partially dependent on your ability stats, partially dependent on your rank in the skill. Could have like novice rank 1-30 points, midrange 31-60, and "master" 61-90. Everyone would still have a maximum number of points you could have as a PC (Let's say 180, because that affords the same spread as we currently have). The only difference is you can have a lv 2 PC work all the way up to master Carpenter without having to fight gnolls and slay giants like a regular carpenter wouldn't have to.
But it would be important to separate the non-class and class-related jobs. Because I quite like the idea of someone being able to advance using the job system, so long as it actually fits their classes. Like say for my Fighter, I don't like going out and smacking random monsters. But I do like using the Mercenary job, because it sends me to new places with a little bit of RP. That's something that it makes sense to advance you as a Fighter, without you having to fight random creatures for no more reason than "Uh, I'm 'hunting' them." You can actual stand fully by your RP of "Hey, I'm a mercenary. I fight people. It's what I do, and I get better at it by doing it." Same for a Cleric using Preacher, or Palemaster using Thanatologist, or a Paladin using Templar or Undead Hunter.
Actually, I might get working on this idea, at least to propose to our team.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Murex
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Posted: Mon, Mar 07 2011, 3:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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I'm sure reworking the job system would be too much work for the devs. It really isn't all that bad as it is.
How about more quests?
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ainjyll
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Posted: Mon, Mar 07 2011, 4:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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More people should start doing the ones that are already implemented before new ones are added.
_________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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Murex
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Posted: Mon, Mar 07 2011, 4:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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ainjyll wrote: More people should start doing the ones that are already implemented before new ones are added. I'm willing to bet that very few people know of a good chunk of the ones that take place in the middle of nowhere. It makse sense that these quests aren't taken very often.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Mar 07 2011, 4:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Maybe the exploring adventurers should explore and adventure more then, and do the quests that are there instead of saying "give us more quests along our easily pre marked path that gets me to 30 fastest".
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Murex
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Posted: Mon, Mar 07 2011, 4:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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TormakSaber wrote: Maybe the exploring adventurers should explore and adventure more then, and do the quests that are there instead of saying "give us more quests along our easily pre marked path that gets me to 30 fastest". Uh, yeah. I agree...BUT....if something isn't working on the population of Amia very well, then ask yourself why. The people who wan't xp without fighting monsters for xp can explore and do all the quests amia has to offer, and the rest will fight monsters. Maybe there are more players who enjoy fighting monsters for xp than standing around or whatever (?). Maybe there is not a problem here- it's just this way.
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