AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Using Pchat to thwart attempts to spy ICly

I'm just curious as there isn't actually a server rule against using Party Chat almost exclusively to keep a spy from eavesdropping, would it just be polite to ask the party being eavesdropped on to use a means to communicate that's in the talk channel or should the player(s) accept that the other party is not talking in a way the spy can hear and keep rolling with the RP?

I'd say it's a matter of fair play on both sides. I see Party Chat as an OOC thing, while Whispering is IC. However, someone who wants to sneak up close enough to listen in should do it sensibly. At the least, emote exactly -how- they manage to come so close and stay unnoticed from people who are obviously trying not to get listened in on.

This sounds like a case of someone breaking the rules. If I remember right Party Chat is exclusively supposed to be OOC, unless for stuff like *knocks on the door so others can let him in the restricted area*.

I am sure a DM will drop by to clarify the rules.

I would say this falls under common sense and fair play, we roleplay in main chat, and also refers to a specific incident, better off PMed to a DM.

Maryn wrote:

I would say this falls under common sense and fair play, we roleplay in main chat, and also refers to a specific incident, better off PMed to a DM.

Nyeh. Common sense can't be applied on the internet, Not since people come from 250+ different societies where 'Common sense' varies immensely.
Read my sig!

Anyhow - I think you shouldn't RP in partychatt.

Apparently I give our players more credit for intelligence than they give themselves...bummer.

Personally only time I view party chat as ic is when I can not talk between doors, transition points, height restrictions, invisible glitching. Otherwise it is purely occ.

Just my two cent

I use tells to pass people notes that only they can see.
I use tells to whisper words to people that only they can hear.

Charles1810 wrote:

Personally only time I view party chat as ic is when I can not talk between doors, transition points, height restrictions, invisible glitching. Otherwise it is purely occ.

Just my two cent

Same; I was under the assumption it was all OOC except for above conditions which is just mechanical.

EDIT: Oh, I have used a tell when I had a situation where my character basically cups the persons ear and whispers directly into it. But I figured it'd be REALLY hard to overhear that.

Merrien and Charles' understanding was the same one I have

I always saw party chat as chiefly a ooc measure and its rather bad sport to use party chat unless there some prudent ic reason for not doing it.

So all those PCs who appear idle are just conversing in tells or partychat, huh? Explains a lot. Get a proper room, some measure to detect spies and do it IC if you want to talk secretly. In my lack of wisdom I used such a measure myself in the past, but it shouldn't get a habit.

OP: There is a rule: No metagaming.

if two people are having a private conversation, even below whisper levels, use Tells, not Party Chat. Everyone in the party isn't privy to the conversation either.

I dislike the over frequent use of Party Chat, it's necessary sometimes, but should never be so much that normal talking RP is buried. I've done it too, I'll admit, but I try hard not to use it so much.

If someone can get in close enough to hear whispers unnoticed, they should be able to hear. I don't like being eavesdropped on either, but it happens to Crow all the time, if I have my gear switched for Spot, he can usually see almost anyone. Live and learn.

douchbag PC's? screw you, if i want to have a whispered conversation in the damn woods, i will, or anywhere else for that matter. I never cry about being heard if my character can't see them, it happens, deal with it, or get a better Spot.

Private, whispered conversations are fine as long as other PCs have a chance to react or listen IC in some way or another (and get caught, of course). People using OOC tells should play over MSN and not waste server slots, since they're obviously afraid of metagaming or interaction outside their buddy PCs anyhow.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

I use tells to pass people notes that only they can see.
I use tells to whisper words to people that only they can hear.

You do not decide who hears and sees what, the engine and DMs do.

hendrack wrote:

You do not decide who hears and sees what, the engine and DMs do.[/b]

Not always true, I can whisper something to someone that only they can hear, and the other person next to me can't, but an entire conversation in Tells is out of the question.

Not trying to argue mechanics though, whispers should be used almost exclusively for that.

With my shadowmage, I sometimes use tells to whisper to the person from hiding, otherwise the "engines" as it was called, wont let them hear me despite they should hear spoken words regardless, just like when you are invisible, you just cant see the person, it doesnt mean you cant hear them talking. The game has flaws, we do what we can to cope.

I don't understand the OOC need to 'win' so much. Then again that's not how I as a player play. Detect a spy or don't. If you can't by normal means, don't use channels intended for pure OOC use to metagame a means to 'secure' yourself. With people/creatures with preternatural listen, even whispering to someone's ear might not be quiet enough to avoid being heard by something/one else nearby. Half of the fun of playing is adapting to when things don't go 'your way', especially politically or plan wise. Then again I like spontaneity.

And 'Whispering' while *hiding* seems like something which would logically might give your position away while you're concentrating on -talking quietly- instead of -hiding- fully. Maybe I'm just *odd* thinking that way though.

All RP should happen in public channels. That's one rationale behind altogether banning all kinds of RP that couldn't be RPed in public; graphic consensual torture and cybering, in particular. They can't happen in private because all RP must be potentially public in principle, so that same standard should apply across the board.

If I see people RP'ing in party chat, I'll give one warning and I hope that a player I warn takes heed.

I can tolerate party chat being used occasionally as a "*A knock comes from the door.*" notice or other examples from a very limited list of things that the engine keeps us from being able to do.

If you want to whisper into someone's ear in the hopes that someone else doesn't hear, you should at the very least emote something about the action and give someone the chance to roll a Listen check to see if they hear you.

Looking at the title of this thread is one of those situations where it's like...

Using Pchat to thwart attempts to spy ICly

Ok don't do that thread complete.

Using tells to communicate whispers is a no, no. Some players invest points in listen for a reason.

The only time I have done this was for mechanical reasons. I was sitting down with two people on either side of me. I wanted only the person to my right to hear me, but if I whispered ever so softly to my right....somehow both characters would hear me just as easily. I emoted *whispers to Character X* and used tells from then on.

I understand not using tells when you shouldn't for whispers, because it's metagaming, but in the case above, both characters should not have heard me (in a whisper) with the same clairity.

As a general rule, I try to create roleplay, not detract from it. Its not about winning or losing for me, its about opening potential.

In this kind of case, I would rather use a whisper for the sake of getting a potential spy some roleplay, some firm, tangible success from being able to sneak past Aylomen's usual defenses anyway. Spies and the rogue types got enough on their plates as it is, I like to reward effort, even if it means a little expense from my own PC's.

Good rule of thumb is retyping everything you say in party chat or tells for when someone is behind a door or you're trying to whisper to someone when hipsing. That way I don't think any rules are being broken, given that everything that's said is repeated for anyone that can hear it. When my SD is whispering though, I just pop in and out of hiding quickly.

Sure people know you're there then.. but.. whispering always has a point of origin after all. if you're whispering when trying to be completely undetected, you're sort of ..defeating the purpose. Or been playing too much Marco Polo.

ainjyll wrote:

If you want to whisper into someone's ear in the hopes that someone else doesn't hear, you should at the very least emote something about the action and give someone the chance to roll a Listen check to see if they hear you.

Yes, I've always done the *cups hands around ear and whispers* beforehand-- though for the record, I think I can count on one hand how many times I've done this, so it's not frequent by any means. If I'm whispering, I'm whispering. I have no issues complying with a successful listen check, though no one has asked for one from me before. Would be kinda fun if it did happen.

My common sense is tingling!

It tells me that all RP should be in either normal chat or whispers, instead of party chat or tells.
All reasons are mentioned above!

As far as I see, if you're there, you're there. Party chat is OoC. And if you suspect you're being spied upon, and your PC suspects it as well, then do something IC about it. Whisper, write notes, check with Ts if you have the resources, or simply go to a more secure location.

And even if you are using Tells to pass messages or whisper directly into people's ears, you should at least give some public emote that shows that that might be going on. In other words, if youre using Tells to whisper into your friends ear, it would be good conduct to still emote in talk channel *Whispers something into his ear*. Otherwise, you're still trying to use the limits of the game in an OoC manner to cheat valid IC tactics. Direct whispering =/= telepathy.

That's what I do when I use Drow Sign on my PC. When he uses it, in send tells to the person he is talking to, and maybe to other PCs if I know they know drow sign. But in the public channel I emote *fiddles with his fingers/hands*. That way, even if I miss someone who knows drow sign or there's someone hiding that knows it, they can send me a Tell saying "Hey, I'm present and know sign, would I be able to read it?" to which I'd say "Of course, he's saying blah blah blah."

Even in the case that someone doesn't know drow sign, there are plenty of people that would realize that its a form of communication, through past experience. And IMO, they should be able to see that just like it would happen IC, even if I don't emote the message publicly.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

I use tells to pass people notes that only they can see.
I use tells to whisper words to people that only they can hear.

there is no whispers only one man can hear. there's always a possibility of a sneaker hanging just beside you. even if you write a note and pass it to someone there might be someone reading it over your head.

Dead wrote:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

I use tells to pass people notes that only they can see.
I use tells to whisper words to people that only they can hear.

there is no whispers only one man can hear. there's always a possibility of a sneaker hanging just beside you. even if you write a note and pass it to someone there might be someone reading it over your head.

Whisper range is a bit unnaturally wide though, so I can't fault that thinking too much. But I would rather move to a secure location than resort to tells, personally.

Secure location is fine. but using tells for IC talk is not fine at all.

Using Pchat to thwart attempts to spy ICly

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