AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

It was promising!

regarding good undead, there are crypt watchers that arise only when their sacred ground is disturbed, returning to the afterlife once their job is done, practically they are epic skeletons as far as appearence goes but the subtle difference is there.

there arn't many such examples, I think I read that in the exhalted deeds manual but I could be mistaken.

I wouldn't count on things from the Book of Exalted Deeds necessarily existing in the Realms, mind you. Not that I would count on them not existing either, though.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Can someone point me to D&D books that may have information on rituals, gifts or blessings that may turn someone into a dragon or something similar? Rather them being born with Dragon Blood, or taking RDD, something that would grant a metamorphsis as a gift or blessing?

Only thing I can think of is the Ritual of the Rite of Rebirth (Races of the Dragon, pg 8 ) turns a creature of any race into a Dragonborn loyal to Bahamut. If that loyalty leaves Bahamut, so do the benefits leave the Dragonborn, however. They look like half-dragons with platinum scales that incorporate every color of the metallic spectrum.

Need some help with the Elven bonds Mathan talked about during the Pilgrimage, mostly what it feels like for the one making the bond.

this is a pretty good description here -

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/vortexshadow/bond.html

the elven bond is a lot of fluff and a lot of it can be so metagamable that im weary of it in game but I can send you some stuff on it as well if you want it.

*a small edit*

With all the things that come with a bond I as a player would request it first though many just RP the bond and don't add all the crazy fluff with it like knowing when your partner dies and such.

I agree with Dieu. A lot of the stuff in the bonds is, if not outright telepathy, then certainly supernatural empathy, and therefore flat-out illegal on Amia, according to every ruling I've ever seen. I'm imagining the sort of reaction the DM team would have if they caught one player sending /tells to another, saying something like "you suddenly become aware that your bonded partner is in fear for her life! Quick, come running!"

totally agree with the previous 2 posts btw. Some of the lore about Bonds is not appropriate for Amia rp, for already mentioned reasons.

Quote:

"you suddenly become aware that your bonded partner is in fear for her life! Quick, come running!"

and that is exactly how it is explained in what little sources it is explained... especially when an elf bonds with a none elf "many elves go running to their death in hopes of rescuing their mates"...

to quote tormak... "elven mary sues... i swear..."

Basically if you want to do Bonds, ignore anything in it that would break the Amia Rules. So none of that "Knowing when someones in danger" crap, and then suddenly running to their location. Maybe you have a vague idea something bad has happened, but thats it.

No sending information across long distances to someone else. Etc Etc Etc.

For those of you who have it, just use your common sense.

No telepathy and no metagamey crap about knowing where someone is when something bad has happened. If you do it, you're breaking Amia rules.

If you've done it in the past, and I know for a fact some have, stop it.

Anyone have any half-decent source materials for what Draconic and/or Mulhorandi text would -look- like?

FR cannon is preferable, but I'll take non-cannon or non-FR in a pinch.

This is what draconic script looks like

Mulhorandi uses the Celestial alphabet, which hasn't been printed to my knowledge. I heard something about it being in 4th edition "The Plane Above", but who knows what that really means. They split up Celestial and Supernal, when before, all good outsiders used the same Celestial language, I believe.

Anyway, because of one of my characters, I've tried to death to look for stuff on the Celestial language. Not finding much, I always just imagine it looks like Celestial Hebrew or Arabic, because of the names of all the Hebdomad.

Edit: Just checked The Plane Above. No visual representation of languages from what I can see.

ooooh, that draconic table thing is awesome. Thankyou for posting it.

Excellent, thanks Dark.

What lore is there for Io that can be applied to the Forgotten Realms? He seems just soooo cool.

The Draconic pantheon exists in FR, afaik. I think all except one obscure one that's brass and she's specific to Greyhawk or something.

So he/she is around. And he/she is still the creator of the universe as far as dragons are concerned. But keep in mind, most pantheons have their creation myths, and that doesn't necessarily mean any particular one is true.

Edit: Aasterinian. That's her name. She's the one of the draconic pantheon that isn't in FR, I believe.

So far as I know, Aasterinian is in FR, as all the Draconomicon deities are. At least, that's how I perceived it. I could be wrong!

Wikipedia wrote:

The Io's Blood Chain
Some time after the creation of dragonkind, Io looked down to see what had become of his children. Seeing them at war, he cried, "If blood need be shed, let that which is shed be mine!" Cutting his belly with one claw, divine blood fell upon the waters, creating an island chain known today as the Io's Blood Isles. He urged his followers in visions to go there and form a harmonious society. Some of the dragons did go to these isles, but their war continued. Io sent his avatar to a group of humans and inspired them with a hatred of all dragons, teaching them the making of armor and the forging of weapons. The humans traveled to the isles and began slaughtering dragons of every faction and breed. The dragons were forced to unite in order to survive, and Io had his peace at last.

Eh?

It's possible... there are plenty of myths dealing with the gods.

If you're asking if Io could ever do something like that in FR, sure, maybe the isles are out there. Maybe he did actually get pissed at his creations and inspired humans to fight his own children. But it could also just be an old story made up. If you want a flat yes or no answer if that's exactly how it happened, well, you'll get that answer when I get my answer to "Is Red Knight dating Torm?".

In my opinion they exist but in a place you might expect.

Jes wrote:

So far as I know, Aasterinian is in FR, as all the Draconomicon deities are. At least, that's how I perceived it. I could be wrong!

Oh she could. Just most of the time I've seen her associated with GH rather than anything in FR. In FR I'd quicker assume her just to be an aspect of Hlal, or at least one of her servants.

In all honesty though, I could deal with the Draconic Pantheon just having Io, Chronepsis, Bahamut and Tiamat. Maybe Null or Garyx thrown in, but the rest just always felt there to be there, if that makes any sense.

Bahamut and Tiamat are lesser gods in FR.
Which would suggest any other deities of dragons would likely be Demi-Gods. Meaning you can worship them, but they are pretty much just really powerful dragons, not god-gods. Thus, not really worth mentioning in the FR books in great detail.

Edit: Ahhhh!

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bahamut wrote:

The fact is that Bahamut was a god. He came into existence as a lesser deity when the dragons first came to Faerûn, along with the rest of the draconic pantheon. Once dragons as a race had established themselves by about -30000 DR, the draconic gods encouraged their followers to battle each other in their divine names. This lasted for about six millenia until various draconic philosophers decided that all of the fighting was wasteful and that gods who encourage such behavior were not worthy of the religious fervor that they had been given since their conception (This is the event that started the draconic apathy towards their gods which has lasted, for the most part, to this day). That is, all except the followers of Bahamut and Tiamat. Their followers continued fighting in what is known as the Dragonfall War which continues unabated in the present day. The war waxed and waned in intensity, with the last era of intense fighting occurring between -2087 and -1071 DR

.

That would suggest the pantheon did exist, but they are now dead, or kinda so far gone they aren't worth mentioning.

Pretty much. I'd always imagined them being handled like Eberron handles their dragons. Really powerful, known all around, but still mortal. Dragons don't need to be godly to be revered. They can live for thousands of years. Given how many violent incidents they are involved in, even the good ones, that alone seems like it would set them apart enough. Draconic Hero-deities of sorts, passed on as living legends.

Edit: I wouldn't go so far as to say they are dead though. Dragons, even mortal ones, are known to purposefully stay dormant over relatively huge amounts of time. They aren't dead. They aren't sleeping. They're waiting. O_O

Wait for all the silly humanoid gods to kill each other (and with them, their followers) and then rise up to claim the world that is theirs.

The 2nd Ed FR sourcebook Draconomicon contains much that is very, very lame, but it does give us this:

Draconomicon wrote:

There are some specifically draconic gods, but these deities seem to have decreased in influence over the millennia. There are still some dragons that worship these ancient Powers, but such devout individuals seem to be diminishing in number. Most dragons [lameness alert!! -ed.] now worship either the human gods - in other aspects of course - or worship no gods at all.

It then goes on to list the FR draconic pantheon as Asgorath, Astilabor, Garyx, Hlal, Lendys, Null (aka Falazure), Tamara, Task, Xymor, and Zorquan.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Pretty much. I'd always imagined them being handled like Eberron handles their dragons. Really powerful, known all around, but still mortal. Dragons don't need to be godly to be revered. They can live for thousands of years. Given how many violent incidents they are involved in, even the good ones, that alone seems like it would set them apart enough. Draconic Hero-deities of sorts, passed on as living legends.

Edit: I wouldn't go so far as to say they are dead though. Dragons, even mortal ones, are known to purposefully stay dormant over relatively huge amounts of time. They aren't dead. They aren't sleeping. They're waiting. O_O

Wait for all the silly humanoid gods to kill each other (and with them, their followers) and then rise up to claim the world that is theirs.

Um...Actually, the more I read it, the more it sounds like they are gone. Replaced by just Bahamut and Tiamat.

There is one FR dragon diety that has little mention, and it is Sardior the Ruby Dragon (God of Gem dragons), who is also one of the primary gods of psionics (and there is also a "Special" type of RDD called Ruby Desciple)

The current dragon pantheon would go like this:

Bahamut (Mettalic)
Sardior (Gem)
Tiamat (Chromatic)

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Um...Actually, the more I read it, the more it sounds like they are gone. Replaced by just Bahamut and Tiamat.

Then their ruse has been a successful one. All according to plan.

You realize that I'm just BSing for the sake of showing a possible IC interpretation, I hope. I do it to encourage people not just to RP what we know absolutely to be true OoCly. But also what could be believed ICly. And the long-lived, proud dragons believing that their gods are just biding their time, denial or truth, seems plausible to me. They're capable a convoluted schemes, no reason their gods couldn't be.

Personally I'd say they all exist, but it is questionable if more than simple dogma has survived. After all, Io is rather important to the Kobold Creation story in at least 2 of the 3 main myths. And if Io is mentioned, the others very well could still have followings.

Glim wrote:

Anyone have any half-decent source materials for what Draconic and/or Mulhorandi text would -look- like?

FR cannon is preferable, but I'll take non-cannon or non-FR in a pinch.

Mulhorandi high alphabet:
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/egyptian_hieratic.htm
Mulhorandi low alphabet:
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/egyptian_demotic.htm

I was doing preliminary research/brainstorming for a new character when I ran into a being called an 'Ghaele', which seems to be BOTH a celestial and a fey. Would a mortal with a Ghaele ancestor be an Aasimar or a Feytouched?

We use the Draconomicon dragon pantheon. They all exist, but as was said, most of them save Io/Bahamut/Tiamat are likely simply Demideities.

Alex Heartnet wrote:

I was doing preliminary research/brainstorming for a new character when I ran into a being called an 'Ghaele', which seems to be BOTH a celestial and a fey. Would a mortal with a Ghaele ancestor be an Aasimar or a Feytouched?

Aasimar. Ghaele are outsiders. You're looking at 4e.

Hey,
would appreciate some help from DM's/players, as I think I may have made a lore mistake during character creation for my player Vinasis and as such would like clarification regarding rules.

Vinasis history is being the son of a wealthy sheikh from calimshan . (vinasis is calishite subrace, has tanned skin etc). Now is a sheikh from a merchant house in calimshan considered a noble class and I must request it before playing ie. like robert of caris? or can I just go with the history i've had for this toon, which I've been playing for 2 plus years already?. Sorry if I made a mistake I just want to make sure i'm not breaking/bending any rules and will fix it if necessary.

You can be rich without being nobility.

Now if you're ever going to claim explicit nobility, yes, that would require a request.

Merchants aren't necessarily nobility.

Quote:

Merchants aren't necessarily nobility.

Quote:

Now if you're ever going to claim explicit nobility, yes, that would require a request.
You can be rich without being nobility.

He is from a merchant house, not necessary noble.thank you both. Question solved.

Forgive if this has been answered before, but I'm on my phone and searching is hard lol

This is in regards to the scrying spells.

1) If you scry for a person, are they aware of the Will save or is it completely subconscious? (I know Detect Scrying alerts, I mean other than spells telling you so)

2) If you scry for someone and you break their Will save,what will end the spell prematurely? I'm guessing death of either person, a potion/spell of Mindblank, and an antimagic field, but anything else?

edit:
Okay according to DnD wiki, I learned more about breaking scrying (though please add advice in regards to it). However I have a new question:

3) DnD wiki says the subject is followed at a speed of 150 feet.... wtf does that mean? Is it up to 150 feet from the initial location there were in when scried upon or something like a speed of 150 feet per hour or whatever?

According to d20 SRD:

SRD wrote:

Succeeding on a Saving Throw

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

Question regarding Sending vs. Mind Blank:

The general accepted consensus has been that Mind Blank blocks sending. However, examination of both spell descriptions makes me question this, and I'm hoping someone can either explain the error of my thinking, or confirm that Mind Blank indeed does nothing against Sendings.

Sending
Evocation
Level: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: See text
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round; see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You contact a particular creature with which you are familiar and send a short message of twenty-five words or less to the subject. The subject recognizes you if it knows you. It can answer in like manner immediately. A creature with an Intelligence score as low as 1 can understand the sending, though the subject’s ability to react is limited as normal by its Intelligence score. Even if the sending is received, the subject is not obligated to act upon it in any manner.

If the creature in question is not on the same plane of existence as you are, there is a 5% chance that the sending does not arrive. (Local conditions on other planes may worsen this chance considerably.)

Mind Blank
Abjuration
Level: Protection 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: 24 hours
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it. In the case of scrying that scans an area the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn’t detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.

Logic:
There is no DC or saving throw listed for, or against sendings, and Sending is an evocation spell, not a divination spell.
Also, it's not technically information-gathering, becuase it's a direct message. If it were information-gathering, it would fall under the category of spells like 'truth' or dominate-person, where a character is being forced to divulge information.

__________________

thoughts?

Based on a past call made by a DM in an instance, Sending is NOT blocked by Mindblank.

I'd say Sending isn't blocked. It's not a mind-affecting spell, nor is it a divination. Unless there's some prior DM ruling that I've not run across that says it is.

Ah, thankyou! I will harrass you on msn for more details. (grymia)

Anyonpe have anything on my questions?

It was addressed: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=1000573#p1000573

Naivatkal wrote:

3) DnD wiki says the subject is followed at a speed of 150 feet.... wtf does that mean? Is it up to 150 feet from the initial location there were in when scried upon or something like a speed of 150 feet per hour or whatever?

It means the Scry will follow its target up to 150 feet per round.

In PnP, a typical character moves at 30 feet per round. Dwarves, Gnomes and Halflings move 20. Its reduced in armour. Its quadroupled if running, tripled if running in armour. Basically, there is no way that a running character can move faster than Scryer can watch.

...Unless they are Hasted. A running, hasted character will be moving too fast to watch.

Monks are complicated.

DustSpray101 wrote:

It was addressed: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=1000573#p1000573

Yus, but still wasn't sure about my first question, plus the third one.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

3) DnD wiki says the subject is followed at a speed of 150 feet.... wtf does that mean? Is it up to 150 feet from the initial location there were in when scried upon or something like a speed of 150 feet per hour or whatever?

It means the Scry will follow its target up to 150 feet per round.

In PnP, a typical character moves at 30 feet per round. Dwarves, Gnomes and Halflings move 20. Its reduced in armour. Its quadroupled if running, tripled if running in armour. Basically, there is no way that a running character can move faster than Scryer can watch.

...Unless they are Hasted. A running, hasted character will be moving too fast to watch.

Monks are complicated.

Excellent! That makes a ton of sense. And yes, yes they are lol

Though I have a new question.
What if the person you are Scrying goes into a portal? Does movement speed count from point A to B or does it disregard you realistically just move a thousand plus feet in and instant? I guess... technically you only moved a few feet to enter and exit the portal, right?

I answered your first question in the post immediately following the asking of it.

Naivatkal wrote:

1) If you scry for a person, are they aware of the Will save or is it completely subconscious? (I know Detect Scrying alerts, I mean other than spells telling you so)

SRD wrote:

Succeeding on a Saving Throw

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

Hah my bad, I meant my second question about what will break the sensor prematurely XD

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